Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

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Indragnir
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Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Indragnir » 20 Jan 2018 20:39

Hi all,

I've 3 different totals of Tanks and Self-propelled vehicles in this army during Korsun battle.
Douglas Nash in his book Hell Gate stated the army was understrength and it had 108 AFV by 6th February, Jack Radey (in the year 1997) stated army had 288 AFV by 6th February or either 372 AFV (he doesn't know), he stated he saw a document from Erickson that support Mr Nash claims.

Can any one help me here?

Thank you in advance.

César

GregSingh
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by GregSingh » 21 Jan 2018 04:30

Those numbers were constantly changing - losses, repairs, new tanks arriving, etc.

Why not check Soviet reports?
Pages 3-4 have detailed numbers for 29th January 1944.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=133020734
There were 236 T-34, 25 MK-9 and 17 self prop. art. guns available for action on that day at 6pm.

There are more documents for days closer to 6th of Feb as well, eg.https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=111669116 for 4th of Feb at 2pm; stating only 167 T-34 available, mostly because as far as I can see two tank brigades seem to be missing from 16 Tank Corps for whatever reason...
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

Art
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Art » 21 Jan 2018 08:45

All variants can be true actually depending on exact date, composition of units, inclusion of armored self-propelled guns and whether they talk about all tanks or operational only.
As of 2 February 2 TA staff reported excluding irreparable losses 255 tanks available (225 T-34 and 30 Valentines) of them 208 operational (183 T-34 and 25 Valentines). By that day 107 Tank Brigade with 65 T-34 was transferred to the 6 Tank Army and 30 T-34 - to the 40 Army.
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=135857581
On the same day in five self-propelled regiments there were 64 SP guns and 1 KV tank, of them 42 SP guns were operational:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=135857582
One regiment with 21 SU-76 was transferred to the 40 Army.

Indragnir
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Indragnir » 21 Jan 2018 12:10

Thank you!
I can't read russian so those files are hard to read for me.

Can you tell me when 2nd Tank Army was in the battle? (no dettached units to other armies) If I'm reading you right it seems army was committed way earlier than I thought (6th February)

Art
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Art » 21 Jan 2018 22:17

2 TA was commuted to action after a period reorganization and replenishment in late January 1945 to fight off German operation "Waltraut" which developed parallel to the Korsun pocket battle.

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by FORBIN Yves » 27 Feb 2018 12:25

Art wrote:2 TA was commuted to action after a period reorganization and replenishment in late January 1945 to fight off German operation "Waltraut" which developed parallel to the Korsun pocket battle.
I think Operation Wanda leaded by III PzK with 4 Panzer Div plus one Heavy Pz Rg one ID 480 Tanks/Stug whose elite Heavy Pz Rgt Bake with one Tiger Bn and a Panther Bn plus 2 Art/Engineer Bns !

And 2nd Tank Army had received in reinforcement 2 Guards Heavy Tank Regiment with IS-85
http://tankarchives.blogspot.fr/2017/04 ... -time.html

Jack Radey
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Jack Radey » 20 Mar 2018 02:04

Its all in Nebolsin's excellent book, Stalin's Favorite, the history of 2nd Tank Army. It has more statistical data than you can shake a stick at. I had very little hard data when I did Korsun Pocket, Little Stalingrad on the Dnepr. In 2nd Edition, which should be out this year, it is based on far better data, and there are numerous changes from the original vague notion.

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by FORBIN Yves » 09 Apr 2019 12:54

I don't see and very curious famous Battle exist a topic for Korsun pocket battle ?

Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Apr 2019 13:09

Tscherkassy....


Jan-Hendrik

FORBIN Yves
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Re: Russian 2nd Tank Army in the battle of Korsun

Post by FORBIN Yves » 09 Apr 2019 13:17

Jan-Hendrik wrote:
09 Apr 2019 13:09
Tscherkassy....


Jan-Hendrik
Thank you :)

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