Asking for assistance

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Jack Radey
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Asking for assistance

#1

Post by Jack Radey » 09 Mar 2018, 03:04

Folks,
I'm new here, and do not know if this is done. But I have for the last 7 years been intensively researching the fighting west of Moscow in October, 1941. My current research is focusing on the fighting around Naro-Fominsk, 20-30 October. The German force involved was 258th Infantry Division (with a little help from 3rd Motorized Infantry Division - but not much). In particular, there is a story I'm trying to track down. It concerns III/479, a battalion of 258th ID, commanded by a Major Wolkewitz. What I know is the following.

At about 2300 on 21 October, Lt. Col. Assman, commander of 479th IR, proposed a plan to his division HQ. Naro-Fominsk lies on both sides of the Nara River. On 21 Oct, 479th IR got two battalions (I and III) across the Nara south of Naro-Fominsk (at Ageptsevo and Goruchkhino) and had a small bridgehead. II/479 remained on the west bank of the river. A rail line crosses the Nara just below the city, and heads off to Moscow (70 km distant), paralleled by a planned road (still not completed by the early '50s). Assman proposed that Wolkewitz take his battalion on a cross country move of 10 km through the woods on the east side of the Nara, to circle behind Naro-Fominsk and take up a position interdicting the rail line and road there. By about 0200 the next morning the division HQ approved the plan. While division was complaining about the enemy being heavily reinforced, they in fact did not know that. In fact, 1st Guards Motorized Rifle Division had just moved in (hidden from German air recon by bad weather). One motorized rifle regiment (175th) was holding Naro-Fominsk, the other (6th) was deploying south of the city to face 479th IR. Attached to the division was 5th Tank Brigade, with 5 KVs (including one KV-2), 18-20 T-34s, 7 BT-7s and 5 T-26s (and 10 armored cars).

As part of an untimed report of that day, 1 Gds Motz Rifle Div reported a clash between its recon battalion and a patrol of 20 Germans, a few hundred meters SE of Aleksandrovka, claiming 1 KIA and 2 POWs. This was a very logical place for III/479 to patrol. 10 km in the enemy rear, checking

Presumably Wolkewitz got his people on the march early, and by 1005 hrs he reported, presumably by telephone, that he was in position at Aleksandrovka, behind Naro-Fominsk. That was the last that was heard from Major Wolkewitz until 1700 that night, when it was reported that he, and his battalion, had recrossed the Nara river and were now on its west side. The KTB of 258th ID stated that the battalion had been "brought back" (you almost never hear, in German records, of units retreating. They, instead, are "brought back". The day before 19th Panzer had been brought back 2.5 km after being heavily attacked on a wooded section of the Roslavl road) because the troops, due to exhaustion and bad weather and ground conditions, and because the enemy seemed to have reinforced the "breakthrough point." Later the "bringing back" was attributed to the need to assist II/479. This is obvious bs, as II/479, which at that point was nearly surrounded at the Nara railroad station just below Naro-Fominsk, had crossed the river to try to relieve I/479, which had been attacked and outflanked at Goruchkhino and was under heavy attack by 6th MRR. III/479 had NOT gone to the aid of II/479, it had skedaddled.

So I have a theory about what happened. I suspect that Maj.Wolkewitz, after sending patrols NE and SW, within minutes had been informed by a breathless runner from the SW patrol that they had run into a bunch of tanks, including the biggest this soldier could imagine, and that the woods all around seemed to be teeming with Soviet soldiers and artillery positions. It seems likely, in the opinion of a few career soldiers, that Wolkewitz first action was probably to cut his own phone line, to avoid some fool from ordering him to sit tight, and then he ordered a rapid withdrawal the way they had come. It was over 10 km each way, and making no attempt to help II/479, his battalion made its way back over the Nara to safety.

To try to get more information, I and my partner, Charles Sharp, got a copy of 258th Inf Div's history. It turns out to be full of little gems of information (though division histories, written by and for veterans of the division, are nearly as unreliable as memoirs, full of glorious deeds and remarkably lacking in discussion of when things went badly), but we hoped for some clarity on what happened. And sure enough, there is reference to it. Unfortunately, the reference says: "Major Wolkewitz wrote this dramatic action up for the veteran's newspaper, Alte Kameraden, February, 1974 issue, so there is no need to reprint it here." Gaaaaah!!!

So my request is, does anyone on this list have access to copies of Alte Kameraden, specificially the February, 1974 issue, and would be willing to make a copy and send it to me? In the interests of history?

Jack Radey
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Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Asking for assistance

#2

Post by Jack Radey » 21 Mar 2018, 01:40

Never mind, we got it.

Wait until we get the book out. I guarantee you, you've never read anything like the history of the fighting at Naro-Fominsk. Talk about a train wreck, ignorant armies clashing by day, surprise after surprise, total chaos. Comparing something like 40 or more documents, Soviet and German, and some history books as well, we have been able to untangle an incredibly snarled account and made it make sense. One thing that helps cloud everything is that neither side had a very good idea of what was going on. What makes it worse, naturally, was the reluctance of each side to report bad news, and eagerness to both proclaim enemy superiority and their own accomplishments. Oh, and then there's the little matter of some of the place names the Germans used not to be found on any map, contemporary or later. But context will show you the way.

A railroad bridge (actually 2, double tracked lines generally had separate bridges for each), believed demolished, seized by the company of a lieutenant who swam the river, pistol in his teeth, to swipe two boats tethered there. A church overlooking both the rail bridges and the main road bridge, with its cupola full of artillery observers, suddenly surprised by an enemy infantry attack. The next day, the other side's artillery observers, working on the roof of a factory on the other side of the river, surprised by an attack delivered over a footbridge they were unaware of, and by attackers slipping from one old brick textile mill to another on a catwalk, and surprising the artillery spotters from below. The latter were forced to flee down an outside fire escape, under direct machinegun fire from the other side of the river, less than 300 meters away. Then there is a regiment, hit by Stukas, attacked from the rear, with 2,000 or so men in the morning, by evening only able to find 170, the next day turning around and throwing the attackers out of most of the city. Tanks going on runs over the bridge in the middle of town, squashing and shooting up whatever they fine, under a storm of fire.

Its all there, and yet another place where the high tide line was reached, a battle that hung by a hair for both sides for the best part of a week. And its never been written up in English, at all. And as far as we've been able to find, not in Russian (they write a lot about Naro-Fominsk, but in the context of the December counterattack) or German (258th Division History does, of course, but selectively - bad news doesn't get much write up - they do call 22-24 October, 1941, the fiercest fighting of the war for them, and their casualties reflect it.)


GregSingh
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Re: Asking for assistance

#3

Post by GregSingh » 21 Mar 2018, 02:19

Oh, and then there's the little matter of some of the place names the Germans used not to be found on any map, contemporary or later
There could be some problems with spelling, but in most cases these names can be positively identified. So bring it on! :D

Jack Radey
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Re: Asking for assistance

#4

Post by Jack Radey » 21 Mar 2018, 03:20

For example, I give you the city of Naro-Fominsk. Lying on both sides of the Nara River. Its city limits were established in the 1920s. The Germans didn't get the memo, and refer to western Naro-Fominsk, west of the river, as Malykova, while the SE part of the city is referred to as Berezovka. But neither appears on the mid-'30s Soviet 1/100,000 scale maps.

Better is a village on the Moscow Highway. The Germans universally refer to it as "Joel Ponferki". It isn't and never was. The first German to come to it looked at its name on the map, in Cyrillic, and saw the initial B as a J. There is no Russian J, for one thing, which should have served as a hint. The actual village is clearly Bol. Ponferki (Bolshoi or "Big" Ponferki). Not surprisingly you can find Mal. Ponferki right near it (Little Ponferki). But having once written it down incorrectly, all subsequent German mentions of it refer to it as Joel Ponferki. Its actually quite funny, once you figure it out.

Other fun place name boggles are when you can figure the location of the village fairly well from context, but it appears on no map, causing much eye strain. In one case a location was pinpointed despite the name on mid-30s Soviet 1/100,000 maps said something VERY different from what the German name for the place was. The German name was for the name of a saint, but the Soviet name meant "Celebration." Eventually the penny dropped.

Other problems occur when the place in question was destroyed during the war, and no longer appears, say, on the US Army 1/250,000 series, made in the early 1950s. Sadly, of course, at that scale, every location is not named, and some are not even indicated on the map. And the 1/100,000 series I can access online at least is not complete. Scanning a map for a placename of vague location, on a map where, say, the names are in Cyrillic script, is a special joy. Particularly when certain names recur and recur, sometimes within the same 10 km map square. Or when the Germans transliterate a town name in three different ways, in one report, and none of them are right, or when you get a stretch of road that contains a Shalikovo, Shelkovka, and Shelikov within 8 km. And hope some tired German clerk in a leaky barn whose been up four nights straight and hasn't seen a slice of bread for a week is trying to write up the day's KTB by the light of a candle keeps it all straight...!

GregSingh
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Re: Asking for assistance

#5

Post by GregSingh » 21 Mar 2018, 04:16

The Germans didn't get the memo, and refer to western Naro-Fominsk, west of the river, as Malykova, while the SE part of the city is referred to as Berezovka. But neither appears on the mid-'30s Soviet 1/100,000 scale maps.
They appear on this 1:100000 map. These are suburbs I would say. Malykova appears as Malkovo.
Naro-Fominsk.jpg

Jack Radey
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Re: Asking for assistance

#6

Post by Jack Radey » 21 Mar 2018, 08:00

Very curious as to when this map was issued, by whom, and where, if anywhere, it might be available? It is a relatively modern map, the Kiev-Moscow Highway, and its bridge, were not completed in 1936 when our 1/100,000 is made, and it wasn't done in the early 1950s when the US 1/250,000 were made. Similarly the railroad and road bridges are shown, So this is 1960 or later. The topography is odd too, both sides talk about the fortified military camp at Hill 201.5 which would be close to point 198.9. The city is also a bit built up compared to 1936.

GregSingh
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Re: Asking for assistance

#7

Post by GregSingh » 21 Mar 2018, 10:25

It's a fragment of post-war Soviet military topographic "General Staff" N-37-14 map. These have various issue dates, from 1950's up to 1989.

Jack Radey
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Re: Asking for assistance

#8

Post by Jack Radey » 21 Mar 2018, 16:32

Is it available online?

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Asking for assistance

#9

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 22 Mar 2018, 00:29


GregSingh
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Re: Asking for assistance

#10

Post by GregSingh » 22 Mar 2018, 02:16

both sides talk about the fortified military camp at Hill 201.5
Pre-war Soviet map shows hill 201.8
It seems to be near Malykova / Malkovo, just by comparing with the other map. Also there is a river called Berezovka in the SE.
Naro-Fominsk.jpg
Is it available online?
I'm not sure. I have scan in my files.
BTW I found 1:50000 German relabeled copy of Soviet map from 1926/28. Shows more details.
Last edited by GregSingh on 22 Mar 2018, 02:27, edited 1 time in total.

Jack Radey
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Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Asking for assistance

#11

Post by Jack Radey » 22 Mar 2018, 02:27

How fascinating. Because I have the identical map... except... the word Berezovka does not appear on it!! You will note on this one the city is substantially smaller, and if you have the entire map, you will note the incomplete status of the Kiev-Moscow highway. This one has other differences too now that I examine it. Kostino (sub text B. Tureyka) does not appear, nor does the brickworks just 1 km to the SW of it (the brickworks just north of Naro-Fominsk on the W bank does), nor does Ermakovo (Yermakovo sub text M. Tureyka). The lettering on Dacha Konopelovka is not on the one I have, only an abbreviation. By the way, this means the Cabins in the Hemp Fields.

So, where did you find THIS puppy?

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