Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
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Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
On nytimes.com, the following articles are available:
June 5,1941: TURKS HEAR HITLER THREATENS SOVIET; He Is Said to Plan a Drive Into Ukraine Unless Russians Open Granaries to Him ARMY MASSING REPORTED Reich, Rumania Said to Have 155 Divisions Ready -- Exodus From Bessarabia Rumored
June 14,1941:
MORE TROOPS MASS; Both Nazis and Russians Have Now Completed Huge Concentrations ROADS TO RUMANIA MINED Helsinki Hears Generals in Moscow Oppose Further Concessions by Stalin RUSSIA AND REICH SEEN NEAR CLASH
There is a paywall for these articles, so I don't know what they say inside. My only question is: Is there any evidence this actually happened, Hitler giving Stalin an ultimatum about the Ukraine, but Stalin refusing to give the concessions?
June 5,1941: TURKS HEAR HITLER THREATENS SOVIET; He Is Said to Plan a Drive Into Ukraine Unless Russians Open Granaries to Him ARMY MASSING REPORTED Reich, Rumania Said to Have 155 Divisions Ready -- Exodus From Bessarabia Rumored
June 14,1941:
MORE TROOPS MASS; Both Nazis and Russians Have Now Completed Huge Concentrations ROADS TO RUMANIA MINED Helsinki Hears Generals in Moscow Oppose Further Concessions by Stalin RUSSIA AND REICH SEEN NEAR CLASH
There is a paywall for these articles, so I don't know what they say inside. My only question is: Is there any evidence this actually happened, Hitler giving Stalin an ultimatum about the Ukraine, but Stalin refusing to give the concessions?
Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
It's all fake news, especially Generals in Moscow Oppose Further Concessions by Stalin is unbelievably naive.
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Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
I have never seen any evidence of this, and I would be surprised if it existed.ShadowWave wrote: ↑03 Apr 2019, 21:06My only question is: Is there any evidence this actually happened, Hitler giving Stalin an ultimatum about the Ukraine, but Stalin refusing to give the concessions?
It may be that the story is conflating two things -
After a German-Soviet trade agreement in 1939 (essentially Soviet food and raw materials in exchange for German manufactures) Germany by 1941 had been slacking on its side of the deal while pressing Stalin for more, and
By the early summer of 1941 rumours of an impending Axis attack on the SU were rife, to the extent that on the same day as the second NYT article, Pravda published an article reassuring its readers that the rumours could be safely disregarded.
In any case Hitler must have known that Stalin would never voluntarily relinquish Ukraine, and since preparations for the invasion, including the occupation of Ukraine, were well advanced the last thing he would have wanted would be to spook Stalin into further last-minute military preparations.
Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
German language press did mention these rumors and blamed England.
England versucht durch unwahre Gerüchte über die Ukraine das Verhältnis Deutschlands zu Rußlands zu trüben
England tries by untrue rumors about Ukraine to tarnish Germany's relationship with Russia
England versucht durch unwahre Gerüchte über die Ukraine das Verhältnis Deutschlands zu Rußlands zu trüben
England tries by untrue rumors about Ukraine to tarnish Germany's relationship with Russia
Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
Vishlev (1992) stated that rumors were initiated by Germans as a part of desinformation campaign. In any case they were widespread in press, diplomatic circles and intelligence reports.
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Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
The original question posed was -
Clearly there was no ultimatum, but if there were rumours of an ultimatum;ShadowWave wrote: ↑03 Apr 2019, 21:06Is there any evidence this actually happened, Hitler giving Stalin an ultimatum about the Ukraine, but Stalin refusing to give the concessions?
Did Vishlev explain why, just days before the commencement of Barbarossa, the authorities in Germany concluded that it would be in Germany’s interests to start a rumour that Hitler was giving Stalin an ultimatum about the Ukraine?
Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
Vishlev says that the purpose was to hide a leaf in the forest, that is to create a flow of "fake news" which would be impossible to tell from genuine information.
Re: Hitler Ukraine demands to Stalin in June 1941?
Goebbels wrote in his diary in may 1941: we are so confused that they themselves can not understand where the truth and where the lie.