Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Cult Icon » 23 Jun 2019 04:48

11 SS was a weak formation, a regimental group. kg monhke (mixture of sources, the most prominent being the SS Guard battalion) was around the same. 33rd SS was around 300 men, by the end of the fighting it was pushed to the Chancellery building with few effectives (according to the CO).

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 23 Jun 2019 06:58

indeed it is weird that one of the most well known battles in WW2 has meagre information on a unit defending a fairly important (at least politically) location. I think part of this can be attributed to the lack of literature on the Kriegsmarine grounds forces, which really only saw serious use in crisis situations and weren't particularly good fighters. Oh well, I'll just have to dig deeper, seems like this mystery unit is the last piece of the puzzle.
-Max

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 23 Jun 2019 10:12

I have questions wrote:
22 Jun 2019 20:01
After conducting some more research I have discovered that the 1st Marine Division was in Berlin in April, but it was quickly destroyed by the Red Army. It is likely that the remnants fought around the Chancellery. For a little more info on that unit (and the source that I used) see: German Order Of Battle Volume 1, pages 36-37.
Where did you do that research ?
The 1. Marine Infanterie Division was near Stettin in at the end of March 1945 and at the beginning of April was moved to the southern flank of 3. Panzer Armee and after the breakthrough by the Soviets at Seelow it was pushe dnorth again.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... InfDiv.htm
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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Cult Icon » 23 Jun 2019 13:34

I have questions wrote:
23 Jun 2019 06:58
indeed it is weird that one of the most well known battles in WW2 has meagre information on a unit defending a fairly important (at least politically) location. I think part of this can be attributed to the lack of literature on the Kriegsmarine grounds forces, which really only saw serious use in crisis situations and weren't particularly good fighters. Oh well, I'll just have to dig deeper, seems like this mystery unit is the last piece of the puzzle.
-Max
Not true.

Various books on 11 SS Nordland, including

"Tragedy of the Faithful", Yerger's book on the unit, etc.

Various books on Charlemagne, like Tony le tisser's book and "For Europe".

books on the LAH, like The Leibstandarte 4/2, "soldiers of the LAH", With our backs to Berlin, etc.
Last edited by Cult Icon on 23 Jun 2019 13:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Volyn » 23 Jun 2019 13:45

Here is a potential unit for the sailors, Bataillon "Großadmiral Dönitz" (approx 80 sailors) commanded by Commander Franz Kuhlmann. They were in Berlin, but I do not know if they were in the same area as the Chancellery.

Also, SS-Regiment "Anhalt" (assigned to Kampfgruppe Mohnke) and Spanische-Freiwilligen-Kompanie der SS 101 (assigned to 11th SS "Nordland") are two more potential SS units to be considered, these could have had some remnants present in the fighting as well.

I found another forum thread with a partial list of units in Berlin - viewtopic.php?t=186986

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Michael Kenny » 23 Jun 2019 14:43

I have questions wrote:
23 Jun 2019 06:58
indeed it is weird that one of the most well known battles in WW2 has meagre information on a unit defending a fairly important (at least politically) location.
I would say the obsession with placing as many diverse units and nationalities in Berlin in April 1945 is the really 'weird' thing. The way any unit of more than 10 men and a dog is inflated to 'A Division' is also puzzling

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Volyn » 23 Jun 2019 14:54

Michael Kenny wrote:
23 Jun 2019 14:43
I would say the obsession with placing as many diverse units and nationalities in Berlin in April 1945 is the really 'weird' thing. The way any unit of more than 10 men and a dog is inflated to 'A Division' is also puzzling
Agreed, but the diverse nationalities can be explained this way: There was nowhere else for these collaborators to go, so they fought to the death, for them it was better than getting executed later.

As for this thread, I want to know which unit's remnants actually participated in the battle for the Chancellery. So if a few dozen men were all that was left from a regiment, division, etc. it still has relevance because it shows what happened to them. Comparatively, the battle for the Reichstag has a great deal more information due to the Soviets perceived propaganda value for it.

I cannot even find which Soviet forces were attacking the Chancellery.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 23 Jun 2019 17:52

I don't know if we will find anything on the Kriegsmarine unit, if it even was one. Volyn, it is very possible that it was just a mess sailors and no particular unit. Also, KG Anhalt was at the Reichstag.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 23 Jun 2019 17:57

Not true.

Various books on 11 SS Nordland, including

"Tragedy of the Faithful", Yerger's book on the unit, etc.

Various books on Charlemagne, like Tony le tisser's book and "For Europe".

books on the LAH, like The Leibstandarte 4/2, "soldiers of the LAH", With our backs to Berlin, etc.


I was referring to the Kriegsmarine, not all the units present.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 23 Jun 2019 18:04

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
23 Jun 2019 10:12
I have questions wrote:
22 Jun 2019 20:01
After conducting some more research I have discovered that the 1st Marine Division was in Berlin in April, but it was quickly destroyed by the Red Army. It is likely that the remnants fought around the Chancellery. For a little more info on that unit (and the source that I used) see: German Order Of Battle Volume 1, pages 36-37.
Where did you do that research ?
The 1. Marine Infanterie Division was near Stettin in at the end of March 1945 and at the beginning of April was moved to the southern flank of 3. Panzer Armee and after the breakthrough by the Soviets at Seelow it was pushe dnorth again.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... InfDiv.htm
I got the Info from the book: German Order Of Battle, Volume 1

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Volyn » 23 Jun 2019 20:12

I have questions wrote:
23 Jun 2019 17:52
I don't know if we will find anything on the Kriegsmarine unit, if it even was one. Volyn, it is very possible that it was just a mess sailors and no particular unit. Also, KG Anhalt was at the Reichstag.
Yes we may not be able to identify them or they may not have been there. That is good to know about KG Anhalt.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 23 Jun 2019 21:02

[/quote]

I got the Info from the book: German Order Of Battle, Volume 1
[/quote]

I'm sorry I don't know that book, who wrote it ?
Alan

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 17 Jul 2019 22:59

it was written by Samuel W. Mitcham Jr.

edit- sorry for my prolonged absence, I was very busy.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by I have questions » 21 Jul 2019 20:29

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
23 Jun 2019 21:02
I got the Info from the book: German Order Of Battle, Volume 1
[/quote]

I'm sorry I don't know that book, who wrote it ?
[/quote]

it was written by Samuel W. Mitcham Jr.

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Re: Battle for the Reich Chancellery - 1945

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 22 Jul 2019 09:48

Thank you both.
Alan

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