Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
RedRight
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Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by RedRight » 25 Jul 2019 15:57

1. Number of soldiers from Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia fighting for the Soviets and for the Germans.
2. How many recruited, how many conscripted forcefully.

RedRight
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Re: Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by RedRight » 25 Jul 2019 20:34

My research so far, sources (Wikipedia, Feldgrau):
1. Lithuania: Nazi: 50 000 plus 150 000 insurgents. Soviet: 60 000, most of them deserted.
2. Latvia: Nazi: 110 000, Soviet: 0 at Barbarossa, 70 000 later.
3. Estonia: Nazi: 70 000, Soviet: 37 000.

Art
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Re: Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by Art » 25 Jul 2019 21:33

RedRight wrote:
25 Jul 2019 20:34
2. Latvia: Nazi: 110 000, Soviet: 0 at Barbarossa
Eh, what? By June 1941 there were three territorial rifle corps (22, 24, 29) formed from former armies of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania respectively. Each with about 10-15 thousand men. Not counting militia raised after 22.6.41.

You probably need to define more exactly what you mean by "soldiers" given an abundance of paramilitary forces, construction units, Flak-helpers etc.

RedRight
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Re: Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by RedRight » 26 Jul 2019 12:42

Wikipedia:
Background

After the occupation of Latvia in June 1940 the annihilation of the Latvian Army began. The army was renamed People’s Army and in September–November 1940- Red Army’s 24th Territorial Rifle Corps. In September the corps contained 24,416 men but in autumn more than 800 officers and about 10,000 instructors and soldiers were discharged. The arresting of soldiers continued in the following months. In June 1941, the entire Territorial Corps was sent to Litene camp. Before leaving the camp, Latvians drafted in 1939 were demobilised, and replaced by about 4000 Russian soldiers from area around Moscow. On June 10, the corps senior officers were sent to Russia where they were arrested and most of them shot. On June 14 at least 430 officers were arrested and sent to Gulag camps. After German attack to Soviet Union, from June 29 to July 1 more 2080 Latvian soldiers were demobilsed, fearing that they might turn their weapons against the Russian commissars and officers. Simultaneously, many soldiers and officers deserted and when the corps crossed the Latvian border only about 3000 Latvian soldiers remained.[1]

It seems there were 12 000 Latvian soldiers, most of them deserted.

RedRight
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Re: Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by RedRight » 26 Jul 2019 12:46

Art wrote:
25 Jul 2019 21:33
RedRight wrote:
25 Jul 2019 20:34
2. Latvia: Nazi: 110 000, Soviet: 0 at Barbarossa
Eh, what? By June 1941 there were three territorial rifle corps (22, 24, 29) formed from former armies of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania respectively. Each with about 10-15 thousand men. Not counting militia raised after 22.6.41.

You probably need to define more exactly what you mean by "soldiers" given an abundance of paramilitary forces, construction units, Flak-helpers etc.
I mean everyone that is armed: soldiers and auxiliary.

I would like to count separately those who joined the Red Army in 1944 and 1945.

It seems safe to say that the Balts were helping the Germans much more than they were helping the Soviets.

Art
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Re: Baltic cooperation with USSR vs collaboration with Germany

Post by Art » 26 Jul 2019 22:30

All the three corps were in the process of "regularization" even before 22.6.41, which meant reorganization with personnel from Central Russia. It was finished by early July. Original personnel were partly transferred/discharged/arrested or deserted, some part survived and later joined newly organized national units.

Continuing with Latvia: several thousand enlisted to Soviet paramilitary formation in the summer of 1941 (workers' guards, destroyers battalion or militia). Ditto for Estonia. Regular mobilization in Estonia during the summer 41 provided more than 30 000 men which were mostly organized as construction/labor units.

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