Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

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Kelvin
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Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 18 Oct 2020 01:20

Dear all members, I would like to ask detailed OOB in Soviet troop in Hango naval base during Finnish seige of Hango in 1941 : I only identify 8th Separate Rifle Brigade in this naval base but Soviet evacuated 25,000 troop from this naval base before its fall, it seems Soviet troop strength was much bigger than a Brigade, anyone have data on that ? Thank

Art
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Art » 18 Oct 2020 08:09


Kelvin
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 18 Oct 2020 14:31

Hi, Art, thank so much for your link.

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 31 Jul 2021 14:49

Kelvin wrote:
18 Oct 2020 14:31
Hi, Art, thank so much for your link.
Hello, Art, I would like to ask if 3rd Separate Rifle Brigade ( motorized) mentioned by Niehorster website or 2nd Separate Rifle Brigade mentioned by David Glantz book battle for Leningrad which defended four Estonian Islands (Hiiumma, Saaremma, Moon and Vormsi island) ? Thank

And is it a 1st Separate Rifle Brigade was destroyed with 128th Rifle division in Shimsk in Aug 1941 ? Thank

Art
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Art » 31 Jul 2021 16:35

1st Mountain Rifle Brigade probably? That was an improvised formation of the summer 1941. Formally, it continued to exist until 1944.

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 04 Aug 2021 06:41

Art wrote:
31 Jul 2021 16:35
1st Mountain Rifle Brigade probably? That was an improvised formation of the summer 1941. Formally, it continued to exist until 1944.
Hello, Art, I am not sure about that. because I found Soviet had 2 or 3rd Separate Rifle Brigade in Hiiumaa, Saaremaa, Moon and Vormsi Islands and 8th Separate Rifle Brigade in Hango, I think in June 1941, it should have at least 8 x Separate Rifle Brigades in vital ports. I also found a separate 32nd Rifle battalion at Liepaja naval base, maybe some in other naval base, like Kronstadt , Poti, or Tusapse or Sevastopol.

From Niehorster OOB website, for instance, 3rd Separate Rifle Brigade (or 2nd in David Glantz book), it had 7457 men, a full size artillery regiment ( 20 x 76mm and 16 x 122mm M-30) or some 76mm guns in Rifle regiment, also 12- 76mm AA gun battalion, very powerful units

Art
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Art » 04 Aug 2021 16:55

Kelvin wrote:
04 Aug 2021 06:41
I think in June 1941, it should have at least 8 x Separate Rifle Brigades in vital ports.
Why? That was 8th Rifle Bridge at Hanko, 3rd Rifle Brigade at the Moonsund Archipelago and three rifle brigades in the Far East (1st, 4th and 5th). Why these numbers and why the number 2 was left vacant is not clear.
From Niehorster OOB website, for instance, 3rd Separate Rifle Brigade (or 2nd in David Glantz book), it had 7457 men, a full size artillery regiment ( 20 x 76mm and 16 x 122mm M-30) or some 76mm guns in Rifle regiment, also 12- 76mm AA gun battalion, very powerful units
The peace-time strength was 7925 men; 8 Rifle Brigade had a different organization with a peace-time strength of 10 444 men. The three brigades in the Far East apparently had identical organization was a peace-time strength of about 6000 men.
I also found a separate 32nd Rifle battalion at Liepaja naval base
That was one of many Navy's units formed for security of ports, depots and other facilities. For example, the main Baltic Fleet's base at Paldiski had 31st Rifle Battalion, Kronsdat base - 42nd Rifle Battalion, Hanko base - 153 Rifle Company etc.

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 05 Aug 2021 05:16

Art wrote:
04 Aug 2021 16:55
Kelvin wrote:
04 Aug 2021 06:41
I think in June 1941, it should have at least 8 x Separate Rifle Brigades in vital ports.
Why? That was 8th Rifle Bridge at Hanko, 3rd Rifle Brigade at the Moonsund Archipelago and three rifle brigades in the Far East (1st, 4th and 5th). Why these numbers and why the number 2 was left vacant is not clear.
From Niehorster OOB website, for instance, 3rd Separate Rifle Brigade (or 2nd in David Glantz book), it had 7457 men, a full size artillery regiment ( 20 x 76mm and 16 x 122mm M-30) or some 76mm guns in Rifle regiment, also 12- 76mm AA gun battalion, very powerful units
The peace-time strength was 7925 men; 8 Rifle Brigade had a different organization with a peace-time strength of 10 444 men. The three brigades in the Far East apparently had identical organization was a peace-time strength of about 6000 men.
I also found a separate 32nd Rifle battalion at Liepaja naval base
That was one of many Navy's units formed for security of ports, depots and other facilities. For example, the main Baltic Fleet's base at Paldiski had 31st Rifle Battalion, Kronsdat base - 42nd Rifle Battalion, Hanko base - 153 Rifle Company etc.

Hello, Art, thank again for your help. Very much appreciated for additional information.

I see OOB in Tallinn naval base also had 1st Naval Infantry Brigade in June 1941, but when German began its attack on Tallinn, I only see garrision units were 10th and 11th Rifle Divisions, elements of 22nd NKVD motorized division and 7 x fleet construction battalion and coastal and AA batteries, where this unit, sent somewhere or disbanded already, I guess is not related to 1st Mountain Rifle brigade. Thank

Art
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Art » 08 Aug 2021 11:03

Kelvin wrote:
05 Aug 2021 05:16
I see OOB in Tallinn naval base also had 1st Naval Infantry Brigade in June 1941
That was a marine unit of the Baltic Fleet which originated from a marine force employed in the Finnish war. The brigade saw combat at Tallin, remains were evacuated by sea, than at was employed on the front near Leningrad, until being disbanded by the end of 1941.

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 09 Aug 2021 06:30

Art wrote:
08 Aug 2021 11:03
Kelvin wrote:
05 Aug 2021 05:16
I see OOB in Tallinn naval base also had 1st Naval Infantry Brigade in June 1941
That was a marine unit of the Baltic Fleet which originated from a marine force employed in the Finnish war. The brigade saw combat at Tallin, remains were evacuated by sea, than at was employed on the front near Leningrad, until being disbanded by the end of 1941.
Hello, Art, thank for your help.

Art
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Art » 05 Sep 2021 08:15

By Defense Committee Decree of 19 May 1940 the 8 Rifle Brigade and miscellaneous Red Army's units with the authorized strength of 14 575 men and 2 213 horses at Hanko were handed over to the Navy.

Detailed list:
HQ 8 Rifle Brigade - TO/E 4/883 - authorized strength 80 men
270 Rifle Regiment - 04/821 - 3282
335 Rifle Regiment - 04/821 - 3282
343 Artillery Regiment - 04/823 - 1988
287 Tank Battalion - 04/902 - 300
42 Sapper Battalion - 04/827 - 612
204 Anti-Aircraft Battalion - 08/121-B - 702
181 Signal Battalion - 04/826 - 341
21 Bakery Factory - 04/883 - 144
82 Field Mobile Hospital - 04/835 - 125
37 Motor Transport Company - 4/86 - 168
229 Footwear Workshop - 024/609 - 22
34 Ordnance Workshop - 04/811 - 46
55 Veterinary Hospital - 4/87 - 25
119 Field Post Station - 014/623-V - 14
Brigade military shop office - 049/725-S - 28
Editorial office and printing house - 4/929 - 6
Railroad reconstruction battalion - 013/707 - 1552
Engineer battalion - 012/703 - 858
Construction battalion - 49/402 - 1000

https://www.prlib.ru/item/1312442

However, on 6 November 1940 3 Rifle Brigade at the Moonsund Archipelago and 8 Rifle Brigade at Hanko (combined authorized strength 22 575 men) were transferred from the Soviet Navy to the Red Army, while remaining under operational control of the Baltic Fleet. That most probably applied to the three separate battalion listed above, although they were not explicitly mentioned.
https://www.prlib.ru/item/1312034

Kelvin
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Posts: 2981
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Re: Soviet OOB at Hango naval base 1941

Post by Kelvin » 05 Sep 2021 13:35

Art wrote:
05 Sep 2021 08:15
By Defense Committee Decree of 19 May 1940 the 8 Rifle Brigade and miscellaneous Red Army's units with the authorized strength of 14 575 men and 2 213 horses at Hanko were handed over to the Navy.

Detailed list:
HQ 8 Rifle Brigade - TO/E 4/883 - authorized strength 80 men
270 Rifle Regiment - 04/821 - 3282
335 Rifle Regiment - 04/821 - 3282
343 Artillery Regiment - 04/823 - 1988
287 Tank Battalion - 04/902 - 300
42 Sapper Battalion - 04/827 - 612
204 Anti-Aircraft Battalion - 08/121-B - 702
181 Signal Battalion - 04/826 - 341
21 Bakery Factory - 04/883 - 144
82 Field Mobile Hospital - 04/835 - 125
37 Motor Transport Company - 4/86 - 168
229 Footwear Workshop - 024/609 - 22
34 Ordnance Workshop - 04/811 - 46
55 Veterinary Hospital - 4/87 - 25
119 Field Post Station - 014/623-V - 14
Brigade military shop office - 049/725-S - 28
Editorial office and printing house - 4/929 - 6
Railroad reconstruction battalion - 013/707 - 1552
Engineer battalion - 012/703 - 858
Construction battalion - 49/402 - 1000

https://www.prlib.ru/item/1312442

However, on 6 November 1940 3 Rifle Brigade at the Moonsund Archipelago and 8 Rifle Brigade at Hanko (combined authorized strength 22 575 men) were transferred from the Soviet Navy to the Red Army, while remaining under operational control of the Baltic Fleet. That most probably applied to the three separate battalion listed above, although they were not explicitly mentioned.
https://www.prlib.ru/item/1312034
Hi, Art, thank so much for your additional information.

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