Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

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Kelvin
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

#1

Post by Kelvin » 28 Oct 2020, 13:01

Hi, everyone, I would like to ask if 84th, 85th, 86th and 87th Border Regiments and 38th and 71st Antiaircraft battalions under 10th Army were trapped and destroyed in Bialystok-Minsk in June-July 1941 ? Thank

Art
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

#2

Post by Art » 28 Oct 2020, 21:17

NKVD "Border Regiment" simply didn't exist yet in June 1941. Of the NKVD border detachments the 84th was disbanded by the NKVD order of 21 July 1940, and the 85th - by the NKVD's order of 6 December 1940. So both were not present when the war started. 86th Detachment was present at Augustow and the 87th - at Lomzha. The story with reformation of their remains is pretty murky, and I don't remember all details. At some point in the autumn of 1941 there were two different border regiment with the number 87th and one of them was formed based on remains of the 87 Border Detachment and other elements. See also the post there:
viewtopic.php?p=2222006#p2222006


Kelvin
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Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

#3

Post by Kelvin » 30 Oct 2020, 12:12

Art wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 21:17
NKVD "Border Regiment" simply didn't exist yet in June 1941. Of the NKVD border detachments the 84th was disbanded by the NKVD order of 21 July 1940, and the 85th - by the NKVD's order of 6 December 1940. So both were not present when the war started. 86th Detachment was present at Augustow and the 87th - at Lomzha. The story with reformation of their remains is pretty murky, and I don't remember all details. At some point in the autumn of 1941 there were two different border regiment with the number 87th and one of them was formed based on remains of the 87 Border Detachment and other elements. See also the post there:
viewtopic.php?p=2222006#p2222006
Hi, Art, thank for your answer. BTW, two Fortified Region : 66th and 68th trapped in Bialystok, was like 1942 had 6 x Artillery-Machine gun battalions and equipped with 192 x LMG, 192 x HMG, and 48 each in 5cm mortar, 82mm mortar, 45mm AT guns and 76mm guns ? or just skeleton units ? thank

Art
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Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

#4

Post by Art » 31 Oct 2020, 14:23

It was complicated, because the massive reorganization of fortification units began less than three weeks before operation "Barbarossa".

By the start of June 1941 the 64 (Zamrbow) Fortified Region consisted of the HQ, 49 Signals Company, 12 and 14 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions
66 (Osowiez) Fortified Region - HQ, 239 Signals Company, 13 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion
68 (Grodno) Fortified Region - HQ, 232 Signals Company, 9 and 10 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions

According to the directive given to the West Special Military District on 4 June 1941 they were to be reorganized in the following way by 1 July:

64 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
12 and 14 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - from T/OE 9/4-B (427 men) to T/OE 9/113-A (870 men)
Newly formed - 62 and 93 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-B (755 men), 66 and 68 Artillery Batteries - T/OE 9/912 (115 men), 16 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

66 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
13 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (427 men) to T/OE 9/113-A (870 men)
Newly formed: 92 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - T/OE 9/113-B (937 men), 95 and 104 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-B (755 men), 65, 57, 70 and 72 Artillery Batteries - T/OE 9/912 (115 men), 17 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

68 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
9 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (336 men) to the T/OE 9/113-A (370 men)
10 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (336 men) to the T/OE 9/113-A (1088 men)
Newly formed: 43, 45, 70 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-A (870), 513 and 516 Artillery Battalions - T/OE 9/911-A (290 men), 15 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

The district was allocated 12.500 recruits for reorganization of these and other fortified region.
(the directive is given here in Russian)

What was the state of these formations on the morning of 22.06.1941 is difficult to say exactly.

Kelvin
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Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet Border regiments and AA btn. in Bialystok 1941

#5

Post by Kelvin » 01 Nov 2020, 04:57

Art wrote:
31 Oct 2020, 14:23
It was complicated, because the massive reorganization of fortification units began less than three weeks before operation "Barbarossa".

By the start of June 1941 the 64 (Zamrbow) Fortified Region consisted of the HQ, 49 Signals Company, 12 and 14 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions
66 (Osowiez) Fortified Region - HQ, 239 Signals Company, 13 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion
68 (Grodno) Fortified Region - HQ, 232 Signals Company, 9 and 10 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions

According to the directive given to the West Special Military District on 4 June 1941 they were to be reorganized in the following way by 1 July:

64 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
12 and 14 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - from T/OE 9/4-B (427 men) to T/OE 9/113-A (870 men)
Newly formed - 62 and 93 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-B (755 men), 66 and 68 Artillery Batteries - T/OE 9/912 (115 men), 16 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

66 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
13 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (427 men) to T/OE 9/113-A (870 men)
Newly formed: 92 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - T/OE 9/113-B (937 men), 95 and 104 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-B (755 men), 65, 57, 70 and 72 Artillery Batteries - T/OE 9/912 (115 men), 17 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

68 Fortified Region:
HQ converted from the T/OE 9/1 to T/OE 9/111 (85 men)
9 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (336 men) to the T/OE 9/113-A (370 men)
10 Artillery Machine Gun Battalion - from T/OE 9/4-B (336 men) to the T/OE 9/113-A (1088 men)
Newly formed: 43, 45, 70 Artillery Machine Gun Battalions - T/OE 9/113-A (870), 513 and 516 Artillery Battalions - T/OE 9/911-A (290 men), 15 Sapper Company - T/OE 9/936 (158 men)

The district was allocated 12.500 recruits for reorganization of these and other fortified region.
(the directive is given here in Russian)

What was the state of these formations on the morning of 22.06.1941 is difficult to say exactly.
Hi, Art, thank so much for your help.

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