In doing some research I came across this AGS document at T311 R257 F415:
What are Vorskla and Ssamara? ...thought I.
They're two left Dniepr tributaries marking the rough boundaries of a battle I've never seen discussed in English-language sources. Usually the 106k PoW described above are attributed to the AGS battle called "Azov Sea," "Nogai Steppe," or "Chernigovka."
As can be seen on OKH maps, however, Vorskla-Samara is a distinct battle in which PzGr1 drove from its outer Kiev-encircling position into the rear of the Soviet forces containing the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead:
September 25:
September 26:
September 27:
September 28:
The battle looks so rapid on a map that it seems more like an over-running than a Kessel, which usually required more than 2 days for encircled forces to be destroyed. It appears that only a handful of Soviet divisions opposed PzGr1 plus German infantry in the Dnepropetrovsk bridgehead. I haven't done similar research on the Soviet side though.
Vorksla-Samara had about as many PoW as other medium Kessels that often get listed as separate battles (Velikiy Luki, Demyansk, Mogilev, Roslavl).
It may be featured in Russian/German secondary sources that I haven't read but GSWW v.4, for instance, doesn't mention it.
Vorskla-Ssamara battle: AGS Kessel at the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead
- TheMarcksPlan
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Vorskla-Ssamara battle: AGS Kessel at the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942
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https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942
Re: Vorskla-Ssamara battle: AGS Kessel at the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead
Previously, on AHF:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=251505
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=190173
As far as German sources are concerned, "Vom Bug zum Kaukasus" by Mackensen includes a brief account on this action.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=251505
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=190173
As far as German sources are concerned, "Vom Bug zum Kaukasus" by Mackensen includes a brief account on this action.
- TheMarcksPlan
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Re: Vorskla-Ssamara battle: AGS Kessel at the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead
Thanks Art. Didn't expect Italian sources to be the most detailed on the battle but makes sense. Seems like Pasubio mostly cleaned up the pocket around Perikowka after XIV Mot.Korps had blown through?Art wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021, 22:48Previously, on AHF:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=251505
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=190173
As far as German sources are concerned, "Vom Bug zum Kaukasus" by Mackensen includes a brief account on this action.
https://twitter.com/themarcksplan
https://www.reddit.com/r/AxisHistoryForum/
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942
https://www.reddit.com/r/AxisHistoryForum/
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942
Re: Vorskla-Ssamara battle: AGS Kessel at the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead
Hi, TheMarcksPlan, your document is great, and settle my confusion that how 106000 pow from so called the battle of Azov.TheMarcksPlan wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021, 22:25In doing some research I came across this AGS document at T311 R257 F415:
What are Vorskla and Ssamara? ...thought I.
They're two left Dniepr tributaries marking the rough boundaries of a battle I've never seen discussed in English-language sources. Usually the 106k PoW described above are attributed to the AGS battle called "Azov Sea," "Nogai Steppe," or "Chernigovka."
As can be seen on OKH maps, however, Vorskla-Samara is a distinct battle in which PzGr1 drove from its outer Kiev-encircling position into the rear of the Soviet forces containing the Dnipropetrovsk bridgehead:
September 25:
September 26:
September 27:
September 28:
The battle looks so rapid on a map that it seems more like an over-running than a Kessel, which usually required more than 2 days for encircled forces to be destroyed. It appears that only a handful of Soviet divisions opposed PzGr1 plus German infantry in the Dnepropetrovsk bridgehead. I haven't done similar research on the Soviet side though.
Vorksla-Samara had about as many PoW as other medium Kessels that often get listed as separate battles (Velikiy Luki, Demyansk, Mogilev, Roslavl).
It may be featured in Russian/German secondary sources that I haven't read but GSWW v.4, for instance, doesn't mention it.
I see you another question to me about Nikolayev pocket, about 60000 POW, about 8 Soviet divisions, but I think 60000 is too large, maybe like you guest, they mixed up with other minor battle, I see when LAH entered Nikolayev, they took 4200 POW.