Soviet and German manpower issues late war

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Admiral Bloonbeard
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Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 31 Jul 2021 15:17

I often hear about how the Soviets were at their breaking point in manpower and out of reserves in 1945. But how true is this? How is Germany dealing with manpower in 1944-1945 as opposed to the USSR's issues?

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by AriX » 31 Jul 2021 19:54

In 1944 USSR mobilized 4.5 million , in the first half of 1945 only 0.55 million. USSR like the T.Reich was low on body-abled man in 1945.

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 31 Jul 2021 20:24

AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 19:54
In 1944 USSR mobilized 4.5 million , in the first half of 1945 only 0.55 million. USSR like the T.Reich was low on body-abled man in 1945.
I think the Germans could cope better since they were on defense. How many reserves the Soviets and Germans had in 1945?

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by AriX » 31 Jul 2021 21:18

Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
31 Jul 2021 20:24
.
I think the Germans could cope better since they were on defense. How many reserves the Soviets and Germans had in 1945?
[/quote]
They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 31 Jul 2021 21:41

AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 21:18
Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
31 Jul 2021 20:24
.
I think the Germans could cope better since they were on defense. How many reserves the Soviets and Germans had in 1945?
They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.
[/quote]

Do you have exact numbers of reserves?

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by mars » 02 Aug 2021 14:16

AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 21:18

They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.
In a sense, Soviet was fighting on two fronts too, they kept about 1 million troops at far east

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 02 Aug 2021 18:03

mars wrote:
02 Aug 2021 14:16
AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 21:18

They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.
In a sense, Soviet was fighting on two fronts too, they kept about 1 million troops at far east
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Sheldrake » 02 Aug 2021 18:29

Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:03
mars wrote:
02 Aug 2021 14:16
AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 21:18

They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.
In a sense, Soviet was fighting on two fronts too, they kept about 1 million troops at far east
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?
The Red Army was also sweeping up the male population of the areas it had liberated.

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Admiral Bloonbeard
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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 02 Aug 2021 19:18

Sheldrake wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:29
Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:03
mars wrote:
02 Aug 2021 14:16
AriX wrote:
31 Jul 2021 21:18

They were fighting on two fronts. I bet in 1945 German had only youth of 16-17 years old in the mobilisation pool.Not caunting those who not bodi-abled and old.
In a sense, Soviet was fighting on two fronts too, they kept about 1 million troops at far east
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?
The Red Army was also sweeping up the male population of the areas it had liberated.
It was running out of men in the "free" areaa?

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by AriX » 02 Aug 2021 19:36

Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 19:18


It was running out of men in the "free" areaa?
As I have mentioned above, Soviets mobilised only 0.55M in first 4 months of 1945, while suffering almost 1 million KIA and DoW at the same period of time.
In May-June 1945 aprox. 0.4M were drafted into the Red Army from ex-PoWs and ost-arbеiters .

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Art » 02 Aug 2021 20:24

Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:03
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?
What are reserves exactly? The numbers of personnel in the Soviet Army and how they were distributed by the end of the war are given here:
viewtopic.php?p=2061471#p2061471
viewtopic.php?p=1383134#p1383134

I would put it simple: from the point of view of Soviet leadership they had no manpower issue in 1945 or late 1944 because they took no special measures to deal with manpower issue. Unlike 1942, when there were orders on conscription of women, cannibalizing of Navy and NKVD, military schools etc etc.

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 02 Aug 2021 20:38

Art wrote:
02 Aug 2021 20:24
Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:03
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?
What are reserves exactly? The numbers of personnel in the Soviet Army and how they were distributed by the end of the war are given here:
viewtopic.php?p=2061471#p2061471
viewtopic.php?p=1383134#p1383134

I would put it simple: from the point of view of Soviet leadership they had no manpower issue in 1945 or late 1944 because they took no special measures to deal with manpower issue. Unlike 1942, when there were orders on conscription of women, cannibalizing of Navy and NKVD, military schools etc etc.
Based on previous answers, I'm trying to figure out how many more men the Soviets can draft if the war continued. I'm trying to see untapped manpower

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 03 Aug 2021 00:21

Art wrote:
02 Aug 2021 20:24
Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 18:03
How many exact numbers of reserves did the Soviets have in 1945?
What are reserves exactly? The numbers of personnel in the Soviet Army and how they were distributed by the end of the war are given here:
viewtopic.php?p=2061471#p2061471
viewtopic.php?p=1383134#p1383134

I would put it simple: from the point of view of Soviet leadership they had no manpower issue in 1945 or late 1944 because they took no special measures to deal with manpower issue. Unlike 1942, when there were orders on conscription of women, cannibalizing of Navy and NKVD, military schools etc etc.
This is the right way to look at the question, IMO: whether men were taken from particularly important other fields to fill out the army, including war production. By '44-'45 SU was shifting workforce back to civilian needs so they clearly were in no danger of manpower collapse.

Tougher manpower choices came in '41-'42, such as stripping war-essential labor for RKKA.
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by Art » 03 Aug 2021 08:33

Admiral Bloonbeard wrote:
02 Aug 2021 20:38
Based on previous answers, I'm trying to figure out how many more men the Soviets can draft if the war continued. I'm trying to see untapped manpower
Untapped manpower (e.g. men below 40, fully physically fit and without essential economical occupation) were mostly ended in the first half of 1942. With exception of native ethnic groups of Caucasus and Asia. After that drafts were essentially executed by scrapping the barrel: release of men from war economy, reexamination of unfit or sick, release of convicts, drafts of women, round-up of deserters and deviators, come to that. Plus young classes turning 17 or 18 provided more than a million men each year. Plus resources from occupied territories, former POWs, displaced persons etc. This regime was sustainable over short period. I believe in any case Germany and allies was to collapse before a critical shortage of men would develop.

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Re: Soviet and German manpower issues late war

Post by AriX » 03 Aug 2021 11:36

Art wrote:
02 Aug 2021 20:24

I would put it simple: from the point of view of Soviet leadership they had no manpower issue in 1945 or late 1944 because they took no special measures to deal with manpower issue. Unlike 1942, when there were orders on conscription of women, cannibalizing of Navy and NKVD, military schools etc etc.
In the late 1944 USSR wasn't on the brink of existence. And the result of war was already clear.

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