The Battle of Zhitomir

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
User avatar
Benoit Douville
Member
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

The Battle of Zhitomir

Post by Benoit Douville » 06 Aug 2003 03:27

This city in Ukraine was the site of a fierce Battle between the Germans and the Soviets. Taken by the Germans in 1941 and it was recaptured by the Soviets in 1943 and I know it was executed by the 1st Ukrainian Front. I didn't find much info on the Web about that fierce Battle on the Eastern Front so I am looking for more info.

User avatar
panzertruppe2001
Member
Posts: 662
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 17:24
Location: argentina

Post by panzertruppe2001 » 04 May 2004 19:22

David Irving says in his "Hitler's War that the city was recaptured at last 1943 by the Germans. I do not remember but i suppose the date was November 23th 1943

User avatar
Robert Rojas
In memoriam
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: The Battle of Zhitomir.

Post by Robert Rojas » 05 May 2004 07:19

Greetings to both cousin Benoit Douville and the community as a whole. Well Benoit, in reference to your inquiry of Wednesday - August 06, 2003 - 3:27am, old Uncle Bob would like to recommend the following work of literature which might address the salient area OR areas of your particular Eastern Front interest. The literary work in question is aptly entitled as PANZER BATTLES. The author is Frederick Wilhelm von Mellenthin and the publisher is Ballantine Books (a division of Random House Incorporated) in New York. The publishing year is 1971. The action in and around the municipality of Zhitomir is covered under chapter 16 (pages 301 through 310). The analysis of the action is clinically succinct. I hope this reading suggestion is of some help to you. Incidentally, I do apologize for overlooking this thread from last Summer. As always, I would like to bid you a copacetic day up in the GREAT WHITE NORTH of Francophonic Canada - EH!?

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob 8)

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Member
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Post by Benoit Douville » 06 May 2004 01:23

Robert Rojas,

You answer this message 9 months later, I am disapointed:-) Serioulsly, I think this "Eastern Front" section will give us more time to look and study each thread. I appreciate the suggestion concerning the Battle of Zhitomir and I will check it out if I can find this book or maybe you can give me some info if you have the book? Anyway have a wonderful day in the Great Pacific Northwest!

Regards

User avatar
Sucher Derzapfen
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 10 Jun 2004 12:34
Location: Kiev

Post by Sucher Derzapfen » 15 Jun 2004 09:57

I live in 60km from Zhitomir..
So i was in some places where was battles...
Diging there..
If ya want information ya can read a memuars of general Moskalenko and general Katukov but it in russian..

User avatar
Robert Rojas
In memoriam
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: Battle of Zhitomir

Post by Robert Rojas » 16 Jun 2004 09:05

Greetings to both citizen Sucher Derzapfen and the community as a whole. Well Sucher, in reference to your posting of Tuesday - June 15, 2004 - 9:57am, old Uncle Bob would like to convey his appreciation for your literary suggestions on the Battle of Zhitomir. Hopefully, I will be able to locate the memoirs of both General Kirill Moskalenko and General Mikhail Katukov in their respective English language renditions. Given the ferocious action OR actions that were fought in and around the municipality of Zhitomir, I am simply amazed about the apparent lack of historical information from either German or Soviet sources on this matter. Incidentally, I believe you are the first individual that I have come across that appears to specialize in the scientific field of military archeology. Have you ever considered creating a thread on the subject of military archeology? I believe you would have a captive audience with the equipment and the militaria aficionados of our fractious neighborhood. By the way, what exactly are your standard operating procedures for dealing with potentially dangerous ordnance materials such as mines, artillery shells and aerial bombs which you might excavate? Just curious! Well, that's my two pfennigs or kopecks on the subject - for now anyway. In anycase, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in that endless sea of sunflowers that is the free and independent nation of Ukraine.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob 8)

User avatar
Sucher Derzapfen
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 10 Jun 2004 12:34
Location: Kiev

Post by Sucher Derzapfen » 16 Jun 2004 13:17

Hello Uncle))
Thanx for your answer)
If ya interessting i can give ya link of memoires of generals of battle of Kiev but only in russian.

User avatar
Robert Rojas
In memoriam
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: Battle of Zhitomir

Post by Robert Rojas » 06 Jul 2004 08:41

Greetings to both cousin Benoit Douville and the community as a whole. Well Benoit, in reference to your pointed inquiry of Thursday - May 06, 2004 - 1:23am, old Uncle Bob would like to share a wee bit of information about the events surrounding the Battle of Zhitomir. Once upon a time on November 11, 1943, the First Ukrainian Front (38th Army, 60th Army and 3rd Guards Tank Army) mounted offensive combat operations out of its Dnepr River bridgehead at the municipality of Lyutezh (Lyutezh is just north of the City of Kiev). The overall mission of this west by northwesterly Soviet drive were the seizures (or liberation if you prefer) of the seventy kilometer distant municipalities of Berdichev, Kazatin, Korosten and ZHITOMIR. These municipalities straddled the ever important north to south rail and communication lines between the Wehrmacht's Army Group Center and Army Group South. With the single exception of the municipality of ZHITOMIR, elements of the Soviet 38th Army, 60th Army and 3rd Guards Tank Army were still attempting to capture their operational objectives of Berdichev, Kazatin and Korosten as late as November 17, 1943. However, it should also be duly noted that this ambitious "offensive in progress" also left the Soviets newly created seventy kilometer deep salient with a precipitously under garrisoned southern flank. Needless to say, the Soviet operation did not exist in a vacuum and the German High Command was far from hibernating during the course of the First Ukrainian Front's onslaught. The 4th Panzer Army of Army Group South feverishly marshalled an impressive task force to deal with the newly created Soviet salient. This task force, under the guise of the 48th Panzer Corps, consisted of the full strength 1st S.S. Panzer Division (Leibstandarte Adolph Hitler), the under strength 2nd S.S. Panzer Division (Das Reich), the Wehrmacht's full strength 1st Panzer Division, the under strength 7th Panzer Division, the under strength 8th Panzer Division, the full strength 19th Panzer Division, the full strength 68th Infantry Division and the battered remnants of the 25th Panzer Division which had been all but oblitrated during the maelstrom of the First Ukrainian Front's initial drive from the Lyutezh bridgehead. In terms of generalities, the overall mission of the 48th Panzer Corps was the recapture of ZHITOMIR, the destruction of Soviet forces of opportunity and the reduction of much of the Soviet salient as possible. The 48th Panzer Corps began its vigorous drive into the southern threadbare flank of the Soviet salient on November 16, 1943. The Soviets, detecting the rapid northward advance of this German task force, went over to the defensive and prepared to absorb the shock of the 48th Panzer Corps's mailed fist. What followed would be a slugfest gravitating in and around the municipal environs of ZHITOMIR and Brusilov some forty kilometers to the east. On November 17, 1943, the western or left wing of the 48th Panzer Corps (the Wehrmacht's 1st Panzer Division, the 7th Panzer Division, the 8th Panzer Division and the 68th Infantry Division) began their assault by storm on ZHITOMIR. By November 18, 1943, the surviving elements of the badly mauled Soviet 38th Army extricated themselves in reasonably good order from ZHITOMIR and dispersed westwards to avoid encirclement. These dispersed units eventually linked up with the Soviet 60th Army which, itself, was stalled before the municipality of Korosten. Meanwhile, the eastern or right wing of the 48th Panzer Corps (the 1st S.S. Panzer Division, the 2nd S.S. Panzer Division, the Wehrmacht's 19th Panzer Division, the surviving elements of the 25th Panzer Division and subsequently the Wehrmacht's REDEPLOYED 1st Panzer Division) engaged in a running battle with the 3rd Guards Tank Army (the 5th Guards Tank Corps, the 8th Guards Tank Corps and the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps) in the vicinity of the municipality of Brusilov. Between November 18, 1943 and November 26, 1943, these roughly matched and opposing veteran formations would fail to obtain a decisive upperhand over one another. The 3rd Guards Tank Army managed to narrowly evade repeated German attempts to envelope it often by using night movement to exfiltrate through the porous German cordons. The slowly eastward withdrawing and badly attritted 3rd Guards Tank Army formations eventually linked up with elements of the newly arrived Soviet 40th Army near the municipality of Fastov. On November 26, 1943, the late Autumn weather broke with unseasonably warm temperatures and rain. The frozen ground transformed itself into a muddy quagmire thus shutting down combat operations on both sides. In the ghastly calculus of combat operations, the 48th Panzer Corps inflicted some 25,000 dead, wounded, missing and captured upon the First Ukrainian Front. The Soviet equipment losses included some 600 armored fighting vehicles, 300 artillery pieces and 1,200 anti-tank guns. The First Ukranian Front's attempt to interdict the rail and communications lines between Army Group Center and Army Group South had been defeated - FOR THE TIME BEING.

On a final note, acquiring information on the BATTLE OF ZHITOMIR was a time consuming and immensly laborious pain in the ass. I owe much to Jack Radey who is (or was) a contributor to EUROPA Magazine. EUROPA magazine is (or was) the official publication of the wargame company of Game Research and Design of present day Emmett, Michigan in the United States of America. Jack Radey had a republished (if not blatantly Pro-Soviet) article gravitating on the Battle of Kiev in EUROPA magazine in 1993 (Issue 32 / Pages 16-20). His analysis was (and is) an excellent counterweight to Frederick Wilhelm von Mellenthin's blatantly Pro-German literary work entitled as PANZER BATTLES. I hope this "little" blurb has provided you with a modicum of illumination on the BATTLE OF ZHITOMIR. ENJOY! As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day up in the GREAT WHITE NORTH of Francophonic Canada - EH!?

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob 8)

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Member
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Post by Benoit Douville » 07 Jul 2004 02:00

Robert Rojas,

I was waiting for your info and I really appreciate your wonderful post about the Battle of Zhitomir. I will print this post and it will go directly in my Archive of World War II. I wish you a wonderful day in the Great Pacific Northwest!

Best Regards

Timo
Member
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 22:09
Location: Europe

Post by Timo » 10 Jul 2004 11:23

Can somebody explain to me the strategic importance of Shitomir? Was it on a main route of the German army into Russia? I know LSSAH and 11. Panzer-Division fought fiercely in the Shitomir-area in July 1941.

Also, for the 10th and 11th of July 1941, what was the strategic importance of the hills north of Marschlewsk (Dowbysz)?

Jan-Hendrik
Member
Posts: 8688
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 12:53
Location: Hohnhorst / Deutschland

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 14 Aug 2006 16:09

As I remeber Shitomir was a crrospoint of railway lines , being a centre for supplies for the german troops !

Coming to my question ,,,

KavRgt. Süd was part of of XIII.AK according to this link :

http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.d ... dinand.htm

it lost its Kdr. in an attack against Tschernjechoff on 22.Nov.1943 . Could anybody proivide more on the fights during this day north of Shitomir ??

Jan-Hendrik

Jan-Hendrik
Member
Posts: 8688
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 12:53
Location: Hohnhorst / Deutschland

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 07 Nov 2006 20:56

The situation around Brussilow in the middle of November 1943 :

Image

Source :

Rolf Hinze "Rückzugskämpfe in der Ukraine 1943/44

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: 02 Dec 2005 17:05
Location: brabant

Post by pavle » 09 Nov 2006 09:34

Interesting to see is that one division 19 Pz grenadier ? or I.D.?moving all the way from Belaja Zerkow to area Brusilow but parallel to the front line to what it seems 1st Panzer division? Was the 1st Panzer in danger or was the 19th ordered to establish a solid front line on the line Fastow-Brusilow?

And we see LAH just before Brusilow making a sharp bend ! and turning backwards did they had to go back and support the other parts of LAH in area of Fastow?

All the best

Pavle

Jan-Hendrik
Member
Posts: 8688
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 12:53
Location: Hohnhorst / Deutschland

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Nov 2006 10:10

It is the 19.Panzerdivision , see :

Rolf Hinze "19.Infantrie- und Panzerdivision - Divisionsgeschichte aus der Sicht eines Artilleristen" :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

Jan-Hendrik
Member
Posts: 8688
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 12:53
Location: Hohnhorst / Deutschland

Re: The Battle of Zhitomir

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 17 Nov 2008 14:36

Image

from:

Wolfgang Lange Korpsabteilung C vom Dnjeper bis nach Polen (November 1943 bis Juli 1944), Band 28 of Wehrmacht im Kampf

Jan-Hendrik

Return to “WW2 in Eastern Europe”