Fall Weiss - A Few Questions

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Nucleicacidman
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Fall Weiss - A Few Questions

Post by Nucleicacidman » 19 Apr 2004 04:19

Today I printed out and read six sources from the net, and picked up a few old books and read about seven of them - or their sections on the 1939 Polish Campaign - It's more or less for easy research for my book.

1. Polish numbers on September 1st, 1939, before the German attack; including infantry, armour, artillery, etc. I have some pretty good numbers, just want to reinforce them with different sources other people might present.

2. The Polish cavalry "myth". Was it an exxagerated story produced by the Italians - or was it true?

I don't have much time now, but I'll come up with more later on.

And please, if you respond can you put a full bibliography of your sources, for exampe: "The Germans had 200 tanks (so and so book, author's name)

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Eden Zhang
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Post by Eden Zhang » 19 Apr 2004 04:42

2. The Polish cavalry "myth". Was it an exxagerated story produced by the Italians - or was it true?
I remember reading somewhere that the German army had a photographer observing and recording a Panzer group or something. They happend to have come upon these Polish cavalry doing exercises, so he took a photo of them and conjured up that "Attacking tanks with horses" story.

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Jeremy Chan
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Post by Jeremy Chan » 19 Apr 2004 05:08

Hi nucleiacidman, what book are you writing? What is it about? I have some books with requested data. I haven't got them with me here though. I'll have to get back with them.

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 19 Apr 2004 10:35

The war diaries of several Panzerdivisionen report that polish cavalry attacked tanks (One example Pz.Rgt.5. on 1.Sept.)

\Christoph

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Eightball
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Post by Eightball » 19 Apr 2004 15:18

The Poles fielded an active army of 280,000 men. In en event of invasion, these could be supplemented by another 1.5 million men in reserve, and an additional 500,000 for static defense duty. These units could then be divided roughly into 43 infantry divisions, 3 mountain brigades, 11 cavalry brigades, 2 mechanized brigades and 14 national guard brigades.
Numbers were taken from John Mosier's The Blitzkrieg Myth.

As far as equippment goes, the German numbers of captured Polish artillery amounted to around 3,200 field pieces. Their tank force was estimated to be 700 light tanks, and another 150-200 tanks mounting 37mm or 47mm guns. Polish aircrafts numbered ca1000, inamongst were their 400 figters and 300 bombers. Numbers taken from the same book. Tell me if these are correct with yours, Nucleicacidman. The exact numbers are supposedly to vary greatly.

And regarding the cavalry myth, I've read that they were actually attacking infantry units of the German Army who was trying to reach Guderian's Panzer units whose progress had been far greater than the infantry and were now in lack of supplies.

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Post by Musashi » 19 Apr 2004 19:04

Christoph Awender wrote:The war diaries of several Panzerdivisionen report that polish cavalry attacked tanks (One example Pz.Rgt.5. on 1.Sept.)

\Christoph
Yes, Polish cavalry charged the German tanks sometimes, but NEVER with sabers or lances. They threw the grenade bundles in the German aromured vehicles (and sometimes tanks). It was mad and brave enough. Don't mistake bravery with the stupidity. Nobody was so stupid to attack the tanks with sabers or lances.
Last edited by Musashi on 19 Apr 2004 19:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Musashi » 19 Apr 2004 19:28

Eightball wrote:The Poles fielded an active army of 280,000 men. In en event of invasion, these could be supplemented by another 1.5 million men in reserve, and an additional 500,000 for static defense duty. These units could then be divided roughly into 43 infantry divisions, 3 mountain brigades, 11 cavalry brigades, 2 mechanized brigades and 14 national guard brigades.
Numbers were taken from John Mosier's The Blitzkrieg Myth.

As far as equippment goes, the German numbers of captured Polish artillery amounted to around 3,200 field pieces. Their tank force was estimated to be 700 light tanks, and another 150-200 tanks mounting 37mm or 47mm guns. Polish aircrafts numbered ca1000, inamongst were their 400 figters and 300 bombers. Numbers taken from the same book. Tell me if these are correct with yours, Nucleicacidman. The exact numbers are supposedly to vary greatly.

And regarding the cavalry myth, I've read that they were actually attacking infantry units of the German Army who was trying to reach Guderian's Panzer units whose progress had been far greater than the infantry and were now in lack of supplies.
I was laughing for about 5 minutes after reading your post :lol: :lol: :lol:
I know you are not guilty, you wanted to help only :) You took the datas from an idiot's site. That is the point :)
Whole Polish Army estimated between 900,000 and 1,000,000 soldiers during the campaign in 1939.
Only 30 infantry division were regural, the rest was reserve ones.
The Germans could not capture 3200 artillery pieces, because whole Polish artillery estimated roughly 4000 artillery pieces.
700 light tanks? Hehe, no! 700 tankettes (TK-3 and TKS), armed only with machine gun. Twenty tankettes were upgunned to 20 mm. Imagine of the British Bren carrier with a roof and you will have the Polish tankette.
150-200 tanks mounting 37-47 mm gun? The number is correct, but they were the light tanks and besides none of them had 47 mm gun. This caliber was not used by the Polish army in 1939.
1000 aircrafts including 400 fighters and 300 bombers? 8O :lol: 8O :lol:
Its the biggest bullshit I have ever heard about :lol: :?
The total number of the combat planes was 407 including roughly 147 fighters (P-7 and P-11c) and perharps 100 bombers (PZL-23 and very modern PZL-37). I will find the number of the bombers soon.
You must know the the top speed of the best Polish fighters (P-11c) was 370 km/h. It was slower even than Ju-87 B. In spite of that the Polish fighters shot down more German planes than they possed. Its an amazing score how for so shitty planes :)
Last edited by Musashi on 19 Apr 2004 22:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 19 Apr 2004 20:30

Musashi wrote:Yes, Polish cavalry charged the German tanks sometimes, but NEVER with sabers or lances. They threw the grenade bundles in the German aromured vehicles (and sometimes tanks). It was mad and brave enough. Don't mistake bravery with the stupidity. Nobody was so stupid to attack the tanks with sabers or lances.
Well, I guess we will never know for sure. Just those who were there will know it. You say that the germans tell lies when they enter it into their diaries and I am sure you never have read in a polish diary the sentence "We never attacked tanks with sabres".

\Christoph

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Post by Eightball » 19 Apr 2004 22:51

Musashi wrote:
Eightball wrote:The Poles fielded an active army of 280,000 men. In en event of invasion, these could be supplemented by another 1.5 million men in reserve, and an additional 500,000 for static defense duty. These units could then be divided roughly into 43 infantry divisions, 3 mountain brigades, 11 cavalry brigades, 2 mechanized brigades and 14 national guard brigades.
Numbers were taken from John Mosier's The Blitzkrieg Myth.

As far as equippment goes, the German numbers of captured Polish artillery amounted to around 3,200 field pieces. Their tank force was estimated to be 700 light tanks, and another 150-200 tanks mounting 37mm or 47mm guns. Polish aircrafts numbered ca1000, inamongst were their 400 figters and 300 bombers. Numbers taken from the same book. Tell me if these are correct with yours, Nucleicacidman. The exact numbers are supposedly to vary greatly.

And regarding the cavalry myth, I've read that they were actually attacking infantry units of the German Army who was trying to reach Guderian's Panzer units whose progress had been far greater than the infantry and were now in lack of supplies.
I was laughing for about 5 minutes after reading your post :lol: :lol: :lol:
I know you are not guilty, you wanted to help only :) You took the datas from an idiot's site. That is the point :)
Whole Polish Army estimated between 900,000 and 1,000,000 soldiers during the campaign in 1939.
Only 30 infantry division were regural, the rest was reserve ones.
The Germans could not capture 3200 artillery pieces, because whole Polish artillery estimated roughly 4000 artillery pieces.
700 light tanks? Hehe, no! 700 tankettes (TK-3 and TKS), armed only with machine gun. Twenty tankettes were upgunned to 20 mm. Imagine of the British Bren carrier with a roof and you will have the Polish tankette.
150-200 tanks mounting 37-47 mm gun? The number is correct, but they were the light tanks and besides none of them had 47 mm gun. This caliber was not used by the Polish army in 1939.
1000 aircrafts including 400 fighters and 300 bombers? 8O :lol: 8O :lol:
Its the biggest bullshit I have ever heard about :lol: :?
The total number of the combat planes was 407 including roughly 147 fighters (P-7 and P-11c) and perharps 100 bombers (PZL-23 and very modern PZL-37). I will find the number of the bombers soon.
You must know the the top speed of the best Polish fighters (P-11c) was 370 km/h. It was slower even than Ju-87 B. In spite of that the Polish fighters shot down more German planes than they possed. Its an amazing score how for so shitty planes :)
That - "idiot's site" you're referring to is John Mosier's The Blitzkrieg Myth, and it's a book. I know one is a fool for taking facts in merely one book for good fish, but at least John Mosier's backs his statements up. You throw your statements out blatantly without even mentioning sources, so you tell me who I should trust.

Your reply also suggests you did not thoroughly read my post. I said the Polish airforce numbered a 1000 aircraft, of those 1000 aircrafts 400 were fighters, 300 bombers. I did not say including. As far as your numbers go, you might be referring to the Poles "first-line" aircrafts, meaning those who were not considered obsolete.

Your artillery remark I do not get. You say it was absolutely impossible for the Germans to capture 3200 artillery pieces, because the Polish army had 4000? My number comes from a postcampaign German inventory and the exact number, according to the book, is 3,214.

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Post by DrG » 20 Apr 2004 00:09

I have found the first article, written by the famous journalist Indro Montanelli for the "Corriere della Sera" of 13 Sept. 1939, about the Polish charges against German armoured cars.
After about 60 years Montanelli still remembered those facts with deep respect for those heroic Polish cavalrymen in his page on the "Corriere della Sera" (he kept a daily page replying to the letters of the readers, and very often the topic was history, usually one of the many facts witnessed by Montanelli in his almost 70 years of career).
«Corriere della sera», 13 settembre 1939, "Cavalli contro autoblindo" di Indro Montanelli

Lo spostamento dei Comandi verso il settore dove si sta svolgendo la battaglia più aspra della guerra tedesco-polacca è avvenuto rapidamente durante la notte. Una notte per modo di dire, perché una spalliera circolare di riflettori in agguato su tutti i punti dell'orizzonte ha reso la terra luminosa di una luminosità fosforescente nella quale si drizzavano vortici di polvere dorata sul risucchio di cortei e autocarri.
L'accerchiamento del quadrilatero Skiermiewitz-Sochaczew-Gabin-Kutno era completo stamane all'alba quando la quarta parete della trappola è calata come una ghigliottina da nord-ovest, sbarrando l'ultimo valico agli insaccati polacchi. La marcia notturna del secondo e del terzo Corpo, discesi durante il giorno a cavallo della Vistola fra Wloclawek e Plock, ha avuto qualcosa di favoloso lungo i canali di luce scavati nelle tenebre dai riflettori.
Sulla testa delle colonne avanzanti nugoli di aereoplani disegnavano volute bizzarre come branchi di stormi in un rauco coro diffuso e monotono di motori. Appiattiti sulla terra come degli scarafaggi i carri armati e le autoblindo si inseguivano a carosello a poco a poco aprendosi sul più vasto fronte, e fra gli spazi dilatantisi facevano capolino distanziate le barriere delle fanterie motorizzate protagoniste di questa guerra di pianura e di largo raggio.
Il terreno sul quale l'avanzata si svolgeva era sabbioso e sfatto, un padule momentaneamente in secca per via della buona stagione che si attarda contro la speranza dei polacchi alle soglie dell'autunno. La battaglia che vi è in corso fin dall'altro ieri vi ha scavato stimmate profonde e dolorose. Finalmente qui la guerra si mostra in tutte le sue smorfie crudeli, cessa di essere un gioco da tavolino, si avviva di cose morte, si colora di sangue. Sulle strade i cavalli morti contrassegnano l'itinerario senza senso delle cavallerie polacche lanciate dalla disperazione contro la muraglia dei reparti corazzati tedeschi per aprirvisi un varco.
Quattro cariche vi sono state ieri, quattro cariche sostenute dal fuoco delle residue artiglierie divisionali, imbottigliate nel quadrilatero: quattro furiose cariche a testa bassa e lancia in resta come in un torneo di mille anni fa, accolte da un impassibile fuoco incrociato di mitragliatrici tedesche perfettamente postate. Più che di uomini è stata una strage di cavalli: i Comandi germanici cavallerescamente avevano ordinato ai mitraglieri di sparare in basso per evitare una inutile strage di coraggiosi soldati. Cavalli contro autoblindo: è il leit-motiv di questa guerra. Disarcionati e sfiniti i cavalieri avversari penosamente si risollevavano dal caos sanguinolento dei quadrupedi sventrati e cercavano scampo fra i cespugli e le dunette della terra spugnosa.
Il fuoco avversario non incrudeliva torturando la loro fuga senza speranza. Languiva, taceva. E i polacchi disfatti si riassorbivano fra le retrostanti fanterie, più ad accrescerne la confusione che a rinsaldarne le file. Anche l'artiglieria e i bombardamenti aerei erano in sordina. Il loro gioco era fatto, insistere sarebbe stata una inutile barbarie. Le batterie avversarie ormai tacevano. Era su di esse che le granate tedesche si abbatterono con un fuoco di massa preciso e implacabile, doppiato dai bombardieri aerei.
Verso sera l'artiglieria polacca smise di reagire, come fosse tutta saltata per aria o a corto di munizioni. Allora anche quella tedesca cessò. Non cessò invece il pattugliamento dell'aviazione, che ha continuato tutta la notte a sgrondare il suo rauco ronzio a mo' di ammonimento, a significare che stessero buoni, i polacchi, che non facessero bizze, e non tentassero sortite notturne sotto pena che un uragano di fuoco si rovesciasse sulle loro teste. Ed i polacchi hanno obbedito.
Del resto ogni sorpresa era resa assurda dalla guardia montata dalla cortina dei potentissimi riflettori sino a una residua zona di ombra, laggiù, concessa alle accerchiate forze polacche che vi si aggrumavano senza possibilità di scampo.
Poi all'alba è cominciato il movimento concentrico degli assedianti, il solito carosello delle motorizzate avvolgentesi a spirale sempre più stretta intorno all'avversario. Eppure questo avversario trova ancora la forza di reagire, vende cara la pelle.
Durante la notte, con accorti e cauti spostamenti, ha disposto le sue forze a scacchiera; i disarcionati cavalieri hanno recuperato e attruppato i cavalli fortunosamente sfuggiti alla strage del giorno innanzi e vaganti nella notte per la steppa. Le fanterie hanno improvvisato ripari e occultamenti, formato quadrati di resistenza, drizzato effimere barricate di ciottoli e di sterpaglie: le artiglierie chissà come hanno ripreso fiato e all'alba sono state loro a dare la sveglia e il segnale di battaglia a quelle avversarie.
È stato l'inizio della tempesta: a masse compatte gli aerei tedeschi hanno inondato il cielo del quadrilatero diluviandovi sopra un uragano di fuoco sotto il quale la terra ribolliva paurosamente. E di nuovo si sono viste pazze cariche di cavalleria avventarsi contro il fuoco di sbarramento tedesco e frangersi sulla linea di questo fuoco, le ondate dei quadrupedi ricadere e decomporsi caoticamente in grovigli sanguinolenti che facevano pensare alla fossa di Waterloo alle corride e alle tonnare. Poi dissolvendosi i sipari di polvere e di terriccio vulcanizzati dai bombardamenti, cavalli senza cavalieri, e cavalieri senza cavallo, si vedevano vagare nell'arida landa tra le basse macchie.
Tutte le forze polacche di questo settore sono riunite in un immenso quadrato ad ovest di Varsavia dalla cui periferia tuona il cannone tedesco. Dentro la città dei franchi tiratori insidiano i presidi germanici con una guerriglia, minuta e caparbia, postati sui tetti, nascosti dietro le finestre, acquattati nelle cantine. Ogni tanto qualche cannonata investe la capitale che cela un agguato ad ogni angolo di strada. Per i polacchi non ci sono speranze. Ma il loro obiettivo non è né la vittoria né la fuga. È solo la morte con l'arma al piede. E questo obiettivo raggiungerlo ad ogni costo.
Last edited by DrG on 20 Apr 2004 21:28, edited 1 time in total.

Nucleicacidman
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Post by Nucleicacidman » 20 Apr 2004 05:18

Thank you Eightball... according to Panzerkrieg: The Rise and Fall of Hitler's Tank Divisions by Peter McCarthy and Mike Syron Polish numbers are the following:

"The fully-mobilised Polish Army numbered 1.75 million men with another 500,000 in reserve. They had 39 infantry divisions, 11 cavalry brigades, 1 motorised brigade and 2 armored brigades with which to counter the expected Germany assault."

They then continue with:

"The Poles could only raise about 700 tanks, 450 of which were tankettes, were tracked machine-gun carriers. They also had a number of French tanks or variations on British models which were formed into like tank battalions..."

I couldn't find anything in Panzerkrieg on the German airforce. Contrary to what I believed Led Deighton's Blitzkrieg: From the Rise of Hitler to the Fall of Dunkirk he does not state Polish numbers.

So, regarding armor my numbers pretty much agree with yours... the 700 tankettes being much of the same as your 700 "light tanks" and the other tanks with the 20 to 45mm guns being possibly the "variations on British models" or French tanks.

I've heard and read similar numbers about the Polish Air Force strength, but don't have any sources on hand.




On the Polish cavalry "myth" I've heard several variations posted by WWII Axis History members which I've never heard before, and has told me that I should look over more online internet resources and be skeptical about those I already have.



Now, to explain the book... well it's a full military analysis on the German invasion of Poland, and currently I'm spending the little time I have gathering sources, while I read as I gather - or when I have the time. Currently I've read some 18 full sources on Poland. I'm looking more at 250 second hand sources by the end of the year and possibly some 100 articles by the end of the summer and a considerable amount of first hand accounts. By the way, I want to thank DrG for that transcript of an Italian journal... I'll do a free translation for now, to get a brief read over and then I'll get a paid translation when I have the time and the extra funs.



Lastly, other questions:

1. German strength on September 1st, 1939, before the assault.


2. Does anybody have any extra information on the battle of Tuchel-Heath, which Guderian gives a brief hint at in his Panzer Leader but doesn't really get into it.


3. Does anybody know of... or know of any sources which give detailed explanations on the "forgotten" battles of Poland.. namely those which books like Panzerkrieg or Blitzkrieg don't look over... a more specific look at Poland. I know Pat McTaggart (sp?) has written several articles for a book which is held by my library... but I owe a substantial amount of money to the library (damn Operation Citadelle book :D ).


Thank you again!

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Post by Eightball » 20 Apr 2004 11:07

Nucleicacidman wrote:Thank you Eightball... according to Panzerkrieg: The Rise and Fall of Hitler's Tank Divisions by Peter McCarthy and Mike Syron Polish numbers are the following:

"The fully-mobilised Polish Army numbered 1.75 million men with another 500,000 in reserve. They had 39 infantry divisions, 11 cavalry brigades, 1 motorised brigade and 2 armored brigades with which to counter the expected Germany assault."


They then continue with:

"The Poles could only raise about 700 tanks, 450 of which were tankettes, were tracked machine-gun carriers. They also had a number of French tanks or variations on British models which were formed into like tank battalions..."

...

So, regarding armor my numbers pretty much agree with yours... the 700 tankettes being much of the same as your 700 "light tanks" and the other tanks with the 20 to 45mm guns being possibly the "variations on British models" or French tanks.

I've heard and read similar numbers about the Polish Air Force strength, but don't have any sources on hand.

...
Very well. John Mosier points out that the men could be divided very roughly, so I guess the number varies from each author depending on what he would consider a division.
Regarding the "light tanks" he is rather unspecific, perhaps he was talking in 1939 standards, I don't know. And the French and British were reputedly modified British Mark 6, R35 and Vickers Export, along with the Polish 7TP. Might be relevant for your book. So since our two sources seems ot be about on the same page, it must be some truth to it at least.


Nucleicacidman wrote: Lastly, other questions:

1. German strength on September 1st, 1939, before the assault.
Taken from Mosier's book again, Germany fielded, in the east, 5 armies which were the Third and Fourth in AG. North, Eighth, Teenth and Fourteenth in AG. South which totaled 1,240,000 men. There was also a reserve of 276,000 men.

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 04 Jul 2004 10:05

TKM :D
British source:
Polish cavalry charge against German tanks never took place (see Norman Davies' "God's Playground. A History of Poland).
"There are many "myths" that surround the September Campaign; the fictional Polish cavalry charges against German tanks (actually reported by the Italian press and used as propaganda by the Germans), the alleged destruction of the Polish Air Force on the ground, or claims that Polish armour failed to achieve any success against the invaders."

http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/WW2.html
Sources:
http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/PolishBooks.html

Poland 1939: The Birth of Blitzkrieg (Campaign 107)
by Authors: Steve Zaloga , Howard Gerrard , Steven J. Zaloga , Ramiro Bujeiro


"The author puts to rest some of the "romantic myths" about the Blitzkrieg in Poland: namely the idea that the German Luftwaffe destroyed all of the Polish airforce while they were still on the ground, and that the Polish cavalry, armed with lances, would routinely take on German Panzer tanks!"
http://www.historyamericas.com/Poland_1 ... 64086.html

"Many myths surround the German invasion of Poland. The most widespread myth is that of the infamous Polish cavalry charge against German armor, which was originally reported by the Italian press, and became popular with German propagandists."
By Stephen Payne (no Pole)
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/9764/warpoland.html

Contrary to German and Italian propaganda, Polish cavalry brigades never charged tanks with their sabres or lances as they were equipped with anti-tank weapons such as 37mm Bofors wz.36 (exported to UK as Ordnance Q.F. 37mm Mk I) anti-tank guns, that could penetrate 26mm armour at 600m at 30 degrees. The cavalry brigades were in the process of being reorganized into motorized brigades." [1]

Another weapon was anti-tank rifle model 1935 (karabin przeciwpancerny wz. 35). Its caliber was 7.92 mm and it could penetrate 15mm armor at 300m at 30 degrees."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_September_Campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_war_myths
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... sh-history
(British or American)

Polish Militaria Collector’s Association in memory of Andrzej Zaremba
49 Parkville Avenue Apt. A-6 Brooklyn, New York 11230
Http.//www.hetmanusa.org
Tel. (718) 633-3439

"In most instances, the information relating to Poland was completely inaccurate or purposely falsified. One example of media misinformation was the claim that Poland surrendered in three days and the ever-popular myth of Polish cavalry charges against German tanks during the September 1939 campaign in Poland."
http://www.hetmanusa.org/engmainframe.html

"There are several myths that surround the Polish campaign in WWII. One common myth is that the Luftwaffe wiped out the helpless Polish air force on the ground in the opening days of the war. Certainly the Germans enjoyed air superiority and their planes caused tremendous damage, but in fact their attacks on Polish air bases proved utterly ineffective. The very first shots fired in the war came from German dive bombers at 4:30am, who struck an airfield in Poznan, but the base had already been evacuated. The Poles had secretly hidden their best aircraft at alternate bases, although it is true that the Luftwaffe did severely damage the bases themselves, their supply depots and the aircraft used for spare parts. However, no functioning Polish aircraft was destroyed on the ground until 14 September, two weeks into the war.

The most infamous myth is the fantasy that the Polish cavalry charged at German tanks. These units were thought to be the best horsemen in Europe, but were relied upon mainly for their cost-effectiveness, since few vehicles were available. Despite their antiquated means of travel, Polish cavalry were used primarily as heavy infantry for break-outs or surprise attacks. They carried machine guns, 7.92mm anti-tank rifles, and 37mm anti-tank guns which could easily take out German armor. Cavalry charges were not a standard tactic, but on the first day of the war a Polish cavalry regiment discovered a battalion of Germans in a field and led a charge against them. The Germans were caught off guard and suffered severe casualties, but were rescued by the advancing panzers, who opened fire on the exposed cavalry. The Poles fled, but only lost 20 men, including the commanding officer, Colonel Kazimierz Mastelarz. However, when Italian journalists visited the battlefield the following day, the Germans told them that the cavalry had charged against their tanks and were wiped out. This fabrication was put into print and the Nazi propaganda made sure it was widely publicized, and therefore widely believed."
http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/1939.html
by Brandon Kyle Leniart

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Post by daveh » 04 Jul 2004 14:09

see White Eagles by B Belcarz and R Pecczkowski for detailed history and strength of the Polish Air Force in 1939.

The Polish Campaign 1939 by S Zaloga and V Madej gives a lot of detail on the doctrine , unit history and equipment (including numbers of artiilery pieces) of the Polish Army in 1939.

AFV numbers are: 300 TK and 293 TKS tankettes, 22 47mm gun Vickers E, 16 2 turret Vickers E, c. 40 2 turret 7TPdw, c. 95 37mm gun 7TPjw, 50 Renault R 35, 102 Renault FT 17

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Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Fall Weiss - A Few Questions

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 15 Nov 2009 19:14

The fully-mobilised Polish Army numbered 1.75 million men with another 500,000 in reserve.
Poland didn't have enough equipment for such a number of soldiers. The fully-mobilized Polish armed forces were to number 1,35 million men, including all reserves. Mobilization was completed in circa 70% (ca. 950,000 men).
Taken from Mosier's book again, Germany fielded, in the east, 5 armies which were the Third and Fourth in AG. North, Eighth, Teenth and Fourteenth in AG. South which totaled 1,240,000 men. There was also a reserve of 276,000 men.
I have the following numbers:

AG "North" - 630,000 / 670,000

3. Army - 320,000 (Kennedy) / 360,000 (Grzelak)
4. Army - 230,000
AG and OKH units - 80,000

AG "South" - 886,000 / 966,000

8. Army - 180,000
10. Army - 300,000 (Kennedy) / 380,000 (Włodarkiewicz)
14. Army - 210,000
AG and OKH units - 196,000

All of the AG / OKH reserves were assigned to certain armies during the campaign, with the exception of 3 divisions.

Total: 1,516,000 / 1,636,000

+ Luftwaffe (ca. 200,000)
+ Kriegsmarine (ca. 25,000)

= 1,741,000 / 1,861,000

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