Areas of Czechoslovakia annexed by Poland in 1938

[Jiri]

Rather in behalf of dynasty which ruled over this country.

And since this moment, not a single polish administration claimed Těšínsko back - until 1918. This means de facto recognition of this cession.

[henryk]

And regardless of what the basis for ownership claim should be - this doesn't justify Polish agression in 1918, nor make Czechoslovak recovery of part of the territory in 1919 "a Czech occupation" as you did in your nationalist-biased statement.

Czecho-Slovakia was wrong to take over land with majority Polish population in 1919. Poland was wrong in taking it in 1938.
With both countries in the European Union, there is no reason to dispute the present status of that territory.

[ljadw]

And regardless of what the basis for ownership claim should be - this doesn't justify Polish agression in 1918, nor make Czechoslovak recovery of part of the territory in 1919 "a Czech occupation" as you did in your nationalist-biased statement.

Czecho-Slovakia was wrong to take over land with majority Polish population in 1919. Poland was wrong in taking it in 1938.
With both countries in the European Union, there is no reason to dispute the present status of that territory.

and what is the present status of that territory ?

[henryk]

And regardless of what the basis for ownership claim should be - this doesn't justify Polish agression in 1918, nor make Czechoslovak recovery of part of the territory in 1919 "a Czech occupation" as you did in your nationalist-biased statement.

Czecho-Slovakia was wrong to take over land with majority Polish population in 1919. Poland was wrong in taking it in 1938.
With both countries in the European Union, there is no reason to dispute the present status of that territory.

and what is the present status of that territory ?

Disputed Tesin/Cieszyn is part of the Czech Republic; the others are part of Slovakia.

[wojtop79]

Jiri, as a Czech what do you think about 1919 Czech military intervention in Slask Cieszynski? Was it right? Was it worth it? Was it legal?

[Boby]

Question:

Poland ultimatum to Czechoslovaquia was issued before or after Münich Agreement? I read different dates: 27, 29, 30 September, etc.

[Jiri]

And regardless of what the basis for ownership claim should be - this doesn't justify Polish agression in 1918, nor make Czechoslovak recovery of part of the territory in 1919 "a Czech occupation" as you did in your nationalist-biased statement.

Czecho-Slovakia was wrong to take over land with majority Polish population in 1919. Poland was wrong in taking it in 1938.
With both countries in the European Union, there is no reason to dispute the present status of that territory.

The thing you obviously miss is that Czechoslovakia didn't simply take over territory in 1919 - Czechoslovakia retook part of her territory seized by Poland in 1918. Moreover - Poland agreed to refrain from any one-sided action regarding the disputed territory - and then in January 1919 Polish Army occupied disputed areas and Poland attempted to hold elections to Sejm there.
Czechoslovak military action in Janaury 1919 only sought to prevent this de facto annexation by Poland - after Poland refused Czechoslovak objection against this elections.

(BTW, larger part of the "overhelming Polish majority" consisted of "Silesians" (they didn't speak standard Polish, but local hybrid dialect called "po naszymu" - which is derived either from Silesian dialects of Polish, with influences of Czech, according to the Polish linguists; or from Northern Moravian Czech, with influences of Polish, according to the Czech linguists ), who refused to identify themselves neither with Czechs, nor with Poles.)

Final verdict on the borders delimitation was issued on 28 July 1920 by the Conference of Ambassadors in Spa, authority of which Poland voluntarily recognised.

And for the above mentioned "returning of Ciesczyn Silesia to Poland in 1938"- today even bigot nationalist president of Poland Kaczyński admits, that Polish retaking of Czecho-Slovak territories in 1938 was a sin.


I see that they were many mistakes on both sides, but this conflict shouldn't be represented as one-sided Czechoslovak agression.

[KACKO]

Question:

Poland ultimatum to Czechoslovaquia was issued before or after Münich Agreement? I read different dates: 27, 29, 30 September, etc.

For Slovak territories od Kysuce, Orava and Spis ultimatum was dated to November 1st 1938. For Tesin area story is more complicated, I believe there was the letter to Polish official from president Benes before Munich 1938 as Army commanders asked Benes by diplomatics means secure Poland position before conflict with Germany. But probably Jiri will know more about that.

[Jiri]

Jiri, as a Czech what do you think about 1919 Czech military intervention in Slask Cieszynski? Was it right? Was it worth it? Was it legal?

In my judgement - it was a legitimate attempt to prevent the threat of Polish annexation, when diplomatic means (i.e. note of January 21 1921) failed and - contrary to previous agreements - Poland didn't withdraw her army from disputed territory and continued in preparations for elections to the Sejm.
Czechoslovak intervention didn't aspire to annex the disputed territory, but to prevent Poland in irreversible annexation (via elections to Sejm) of territory which was only provisionally administered by her, according to Czech-Polish agreements.

In this sense, Czechoslovak operation was a legal enforcement one.

[Jiri]

Question:

Poland ultimatum to Czechoslovaquia was issued before or after Münich Agreement? I read different dates: 27, 29, 30 September, etc.

There were several ultimata (or some termed as "declarations of demands", which in diplomatic speech probably means that these documents didn't include explicit threats of force) by Poland in September-November 1938, first issued on September 21 1938, but when the Polish ultimatum of 1938 is mentioned, it usually refers to ultimatum of September 29.

BTW - Hitler's "Godesberg Memorandum" included territorial demands of Poland and Hungary against Czechoslovakia too.

[Boby]

Thanks Jiri

BTW - Hitler's "Godesberg Memorandum" included territorial demands of Poland and Hungary against Czechoslovakia too.

Is correct. Both countries were requested to send a document in wich territorial demands were detailed. Hitler intended "to make good use" of this documents in his talks with Chamberlain on 22 September, as he explained to Béla Imrédy the day before.

Boby,

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

And since this moment, not a single polish administration claimed Těšínsko back - until 1918. This means de facto recognition of this cession.

Jiri - if it comes to such "eternal obligations", etc.

As far as I know Spis shoud be "eternally Polish" (according to the verdict of papal court in Wroclaw).

So why it was part of Czechoslovakia (and now is part of Slovakia)? Situation here is similar to Teschen, because majority of population of Spis were always Slovakians and Germans (even when this land was part of Poland).

[henryk]

The thing you obviously miss is that Czechoslovakia didn't simply take over territory in 1919 - Czechoslovakia retook part of her territory seized by Poland in 1918. Moreover - Poland agreed to refrain from any one-sided action regarding the disputed territory - and then in January 1919 Polish Army occupied disputed areas and Poland attempted to hold elections to Sejm there.
Czechoslovak military action in Janaury 1919 only sought to prevent this de facto annexation by Poland - after Poland refused Czechoslovak objetion against this elections.

(BTW, larger part of the "overhelming Polish majority" consisted of "Silesians" (they didn't speak standard Polish, but local hybrid dialect called "po naszymu" - which is derived either from Silesian dialects of Polish, with influences of Czech, according to the Polish linguists; or from Northern Moravian Czech, with influences of Polish, according to the Czech linguists ), who refused to identify themselves neither with Czechs, nor with Poles.)

Final verdict on the borders delimitation was issued on 28 July 1920 by the Conference of Ambassadors in Spa, authority of which Poland voluntarily recognised.

Do you have an English language source for this?

[Jiri]

And since this moment, not a single polish administration claimed Těšínsko back - until 1918. This means de facto recognition of this cession.

Jiri - if it comes to such "eternal obligations", etc.

As far as I know Spis shoud be "eternally Polish" (according to the verdict of papal court in Wroclaw).

So why it was part of Czechoslovakia (and now is part of Slovakia)? Situation here is similar to Teschen, because majority of population of Spis were always Slovakians and Germans (even when this land was part of Poland).

Unfortunately, I'm not particularly versed in Slovak history, but basically the situation here is similar to Teschen - it belonged to Kingdom of Hungaria and this fact was never disputed by Polish administration offically, although some Polish nationalists started to dispute the borders of Polish Galicia sometime in the end of 19th century.

Jurisdiction of the Holy See over territorial disputes was always very dubious, at best.

[Jiri]

The thing you obviously miss is that Czechoslovakia didn't simply take over territory in 1919 - Czechoslovakia retook part of her territory seized by Poland in 1918. Moreover - Poland agreed to refrain from any one-sided action regarding the disputed territory - and then in January 1919 Polish Army occupied disputed areas and Poland attempted to hold elections to Sejm there.
Czechoslovak military action in Janaury 1919 only sought to prevent this de facto annexation by Poland - after Poland refused Czechoslovak objetion against this elections.

(BTW, larger part of the "overhelming Polish majority" consisted of "Silesians" (they didn't speak standard Polish, but local hybrid dialect called "po naszymu" - which is derived either from Silesian dialects of Polish, with influences of Czech, according to the Polish linguists; or from Northern Moravian Czech, with influences of Polish, according to the Czech linguists ), who refused to identify themselves neither with Czechs, nor with Poles.)

Final verdict on the borders delimitation was issued on 28 July 1920 by the Conference of Ambassadors in Spa, authority of which Poland voluntarily recognised.

Do you have an English language source for this?

For what specifically?