Stalin line

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#16

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 05 Nov 2005, 19:59

belongs to "that (admittedly off-topic) experiment"
Last edited by Oleg Grigoryev on 23 Jan 2006, 03:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Kim Sung
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#17

Post by Kim Sung » 07 Nov 2005, 13:55

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:
killchola wrote:Structure of the Stalin line and its map
I don't belive that Mozhaysk belt was a part of the Satlin' s line
Really?



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Kim Sung
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#19

Post by Kim Sung » 15 Mar 2006, 14:38

I think fully prepared Soviet Union could have stopped German advance at the Stalin line in 1941. It was STALIN himself that made the Stalin line useless.

101 jaeger
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the 101 jägerdivison fought at the stalinline

#20

Post by 101 jaeger » 24 Mar 2006, 17:58

the 101 jägerdivision was part of the Heeresgruppe Süd in the 17th Army in the LII. Army Korps.

it took them from the 15.july to the 18th july to break through it
it were 9458 soldiers including 212 officers, 1379 seargants, with 3130 horses

war diary 101 jäger:
15.07.1941
after taking 4 bunkers the regiment 228 (101) was able to cross the Ljadowa-river and was building a bridgehead at the eastern waterside
gulewskaja, sloboda
left nabour 100 jäger division was able after fierce fighting to break the stalin line between koserowka and mischalewzy.
16.07.1941
Regiment 229(101) was forced to move in defence after counterattack of russian forces support by artillerie. the first attach was rejected at 18:00 the second at 21:00
the regiment could holt the reached line from the 16. to the 17th.

and so on....

the list is too long to be presented here
one thing is clear:
the defenders fought persistent and it took bat. zbv500 half of the men
16.07.1941 21:00
the whole fighting was difficult and to take away or destroy the left over bunkers (20) was difficult because the enemie fought persistent and it seems that they have the order to sacrifice themselve. in one case on bunker was only falling after 6 hours heavy fight because all means of the pioniers to blow up the bunker failed and the crew of the bunker was not willing to give up. ...

there was another fact that made the fights very difficult because the russians left their war facilities partly as soon as attacked, moved in field positions which where perfectly camouflaged, near to the bunkers, fighting very hard


war diary okw:

15.07.1941
the attack of the H.Gr. south is continued in all areas. the 17th (101jd, 257 id, 100 jd, 1 gd, 4 gd, 71id, 97 jd, 295 id, 24 id, 296 id, 454 sich, 444 sich)army broke through the stalin line against fierce resistance. Panzer Group 1 (status of army - 16 mot ID, 16 pz, 11pz, 13 pz, 25 mot.id, 14pz, 9 pz, ss pz adolf hitler, ss pz wiking) still fighting at Bjelaja Zerkow
16.07.1941
Pz group 1 has taken bjelaja zerkow

101 jaeger
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map of stalin line

#21

Post by 101 jaeger » 24 Mar 2006, 18:01

here is a map showing the movements of the 101 jäger divsion in that period
Attachments
Dg_78_18.07.41 Stalinlinie axis forum.jpg
Dg_78_18.07.41 Stalinlinie axis forum.jpg (64.51 KiB) Viewed 3748 times

101 jaeger
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sometimes pictures tell more than words

#22

Post by 101 jaeger » 28 May 2006, 13:18

just to undermine my statements -
there was heavy fighting to break through the stalin line

please see the picture
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VM_097 axis forum.jpg
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101 jaeger
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heavy fighting at stalin line - part 2: 97 jaeger division:

#23

Post by 101 jaeger » 28 May 2006, 19:54

also the book "verlassen von des sieges göttern" from general maximilian fretter-pico (divisionicommander) has some intresting information about the attack:
"the next goal of the XXXXIV.Geb.AK was to win a bug-section in the area of winniza. the division was informed that west to the bug the
stalin line would have to be broken first. details about the exact positions, type, strength and depth of the buildings was not available.
the division was on its own to gather all the information to be able to make a breaktrough."
...
it was a fact to him: "that a fronal attack was only possible with heaviest losses if possible at all with the means of his division"
the attack was planned for the 15th july but he did not wanted wait that long and rather use the surprise and feint element of a earlier
attack without heavy artillery support and systematic procedure." his decission then was to attack on the 14th in the daybreak withouth
artillerysupport using the surprise element on a reconnaissanced spot 1,5 km south of latyszow.
the idea was to take away a dam covered by a small bunker enabling them to pass over the section and after building a bridgehead to be able
to break in the bunkerarea.

he also setup a feint-attack (to cover the assembly over night in the woods): the artillery (observed aiming shots) was shooting in the
evening of the 13th on the positions around latyszow and also battle-able reconnaissance was applied to that area. the russians believed
therefore in an attack against latyszow to open the street to winniza.


this is followed by a 3 pages description how the fights went on.
fretter-pico was at regiment 204 which was leading the attack. stoßtrupps overpowered the hostile small bunker at the dam and with support
of the pioneers, the raft-sacks where put into the water. the first able-to-fight stosstrupps made it over the river and moved into the
direction of the dam.

of great help was the morning-fog and the enemy artillery-defencefire was too high.
...

more stoßtrupps crossed over and builded a bridge-head including the dam. all these actions where supported by
the artillery which started (as on the 13th) to attack latyszow to mislead the enemy. before the enemy recognized where the attack
really happened it was a success already. ...
it did not take long, and small haubitzen have been moved into the bridgehead. directly those ones where used to systematically fight
the bunkers (schartenbeschuß - gap-shooting) which was perfectly supported by 8,8 flak from the friendly riverbank.
...

the bunkerpersonel did not surrender and fought stubborn. 36 bunkers had to be taken one-by-one which was very timeconsuming. in the meantime
the enemy had moved motorized infantry and artillery-units from other parts of the front which tried to destroy the bridgehead from the
97 jaegerdivision. but it was too late. regiment 204 had organized the defence including the artillery and in parts made a counterattack which
threw the russians into the woods east of the stalin line.
...
in the afternoon the fighting forces entered the city and had to fight house-to-house in the direction of the bridge supported by
the light haubitzen in direct-shooting. the whole city was made ready for defence with obstacles, very well camouflaged bunkers and
fieldpositions made up strongpoints. the soviets fought very hard and had to be overwelmed in close combat.
...
the influence of the commissars was obvious and their neck-shots were more fearced than the enemy fire... due to the information of
soviet prisoners that is the explanation for the firce fighting and the stalin line - which had the name of being unbeatable should have
been hold at all cost. therefore the numbers of dead and wounded was incredably high. literaly some ditches were full of fallen dead
soviets.
...


than he explained in detail how the stalin line was setup and that the biggest problem was the missing reserves in interim sectors in
the area.

andreas1980
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Re: Stalin line

#24

Post by andreas1980 » 14 Aug 2012, 18:44

"...stoßtrupps overpowered the hostile small bunker at the dam..."

The 4th of April 2012 – this day I have seen the “small bunker at the dam”.
It was really damaged with artillery. And have made some pictures from different angles.

Image

Image

I’ve been exploring the Stalin Line already for 6 years end have seen 176 soviet bunkers near Letichev (western Ukraine).

Omeganian
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Re: Stalin line

#25

Post by Omeganian » 20 Aug 2012, 12:06

In the parts in front of Kiev, Vlasov held the fortifications well enough that Germans had to go around.

andreas1980
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Re: Stalin line

#26

Post by andreas1980 » 31 Aug 2012, 18:52

Yes, I know about this fortified line. In Kiev is Forty-Club. And I have contact with one of Forty-Club member - Alex Kreshanov. He knows a lot about the Kiev Fortified Position.

Yesterday I was at Stalin Line again. Sector of attack of the 97th Light infantry division.

These are couple fresh pictures :

Image

Image

Image

Image

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tigre
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Re: Stalin line

#27

Post by tigre » 14 Sep 2012, 19:53

Hello to all :D; something more, about the Stalin Line. An example of the struggle for breaking through the fortified zone along the Dniester River in the Cosauti-Jampol area......

Dniester Crossing by Cosauti-Jampol on 18 July 1941.

Fortifications.

Mostly there were composed of machine gun bunkers with 2-3 loopholes. Built looking towards the roads leading from the west to the river in the areas of General Poetas (198 ID) and Cosauti (170 ID). The distance between forts stretched from 400 up to 2000 meters. The main line of resistance on the battlefield, especially west of the mouth of the Murafa, was reinforced with field positions (rifle pits and trenches). Taking advantage of the high ground extending to the depth on the east bank of the river, were organized several successive defensive positions with a depth of about 5 kilometers.

Sources: http://liniastalina.narod.ru/
http://home.arcor.de/chevy.20/Gefallene ... nis-HP.htm
Denkschrift russische über die Landesbefestigung

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image003.jpg
Positions due west of Jampol...................

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tigre
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Re: Stalin line

#28

Post by tigre » 21 Sep 2012, 21:38

Hello to all :D; something more......

Dniester Crossing by Cosauti-Jampol on 18 July 1941.

Crossing the Dniester River.

On July 18, 1941, the 170. ID approached up to the river having as its mission: to force the crossing of the Dniester, penetrate through the Stalin Line and establish a bridgehead on the east bank. The division would attack with the IR 401 to the right and the IR 391 to the left. At 03:45 hours would begin the preparation fire. The fortifications and nests of resistance would be beaten for 15 minutes by 88 mm Flak guns, anti-tank weapons and heavy infantry weapons.

Prior to the crossing, the 240 AR unleashed its fire for about 5 minutes on the forward positions and taking advantage of it, the infantry regiments crossed the river.

The destruction of the key positions was performed as follows:

Strong point No. 2: fortification of concrete with three embrasures for heavy machine guns, the main of them facing to the front and other two auxiliary loopholes, facing upstream and downstream. The garrison was 15 men.

Destruction: after getting across the river a Platoon of the 2. / Pi Btl 240 broke through a barbed wire entanglement of about 3 meters wide and with the support of a light machine gun shooting from the shore approached within 150 meters of the bunker. The loophole which faced upstream was rendered useless with flamethrowers and an explosive charge attached to a pole. Even after undermining the door, the garrison did not give up. Only after detonating another explosive charge of nine pounds, eight soldiers came out and were captured, the rest of the crew was destroyed inside.

Sources: http://liniastalina.narod.ru/
http://home.arcor.de/chevy.20/Gefallene ... nis-HP.htm
Denkschrift russische über die Landesbefestigung

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

andreas1980
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Re: Stalin line

#29

Post by andreas1980 » 22 Sep 2012, 18:26

Hello, Raul!
I want to add some illustrations to your map.

This is command bunker (at the map # 15a):

Image


The # 15a - Interior view:

Image


The bunker without number (at the map – between # 15a and # 15 ).
Image

Image


The bunker # 15 (at the map).

Image



The bunker # 17.

Image
Last edited by andreas1980 on 22 Sep 2012, 19:24, edited 1 time in total.

andreas1980
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Re: Stalin line

#30

Post by andreas1980 » 22 Sep 2012, 18:45

The mine-group (fn the map - # 9) – 2 bunkers (1- machinegun bunker and 1-artillery bunker with system of underground rooms and galleries).

Image


The exploded artillery bunker:
Image

The pieces of machinegun bunker:
Image

The entrance of underground galleries:
Image

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