Stalin line

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DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#76

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 15 Sep 2017, 23:19

Art wrote:The first contact with the Mogilev-Podolsky fortified region was in the early morning of 7.7 when a "Brandenburg" unit tried unsuccessfully to capture the bridge over Dniester at Mogilev. The assault proper began on 17.7. So ten days delay.
What must also be mentioned is that the Dniester position was defended by one Soviet division (130th) plus fortification units stretched on a very wide front - almost 100km by air line. Which had opposite to it 6 German divisions and also Romanian elements. That would be impossible on a position with less fortification and natural strength. So from economy of force point of view the balance was more than positive.
In Jeff Leach's abstract, the german commander speaks about 4 days of reconnaissance and one day of attack.
Do you mean that the german forces stayed there for 5 days before making reconnaissance and final assault ?

Art
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Re: Stalin line

#77

Post by Art » 16 Sep 2017, 12:59

The abstract talks specifically about German XXX corps situation. XI Corps reached the Dniester line with forward elements on 7 July, the assault started on 17th. XXX Corps reached Dniester on 12 July the assault started on 18th. Below is a fragment of the situation map from 7 July 1941 to make things clear:

Image


DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#78

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 16 Sep 2017, 14:33

Art, earlier you speak about the "Mogilev-Podolski" fortified region, but in the article i cite p.5 of this thread, the russian authors distinguish 2 fortified regions "Mogilev-Iampol" and "Kamentes-Podolski". So indeed you are talking about Mogilev-Iampol, right ?

Why XXX Korps joined 5 days later than the XI Korps ? Was he delayed by some partisan operations on the road ?

Art
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Re: Stalin line

#79

Post by Art » 16 Sep 2017, 18:13

The correct name in 1941 was "Mogilev-Podolsky fortified region" (earlier called "Mogilev-Yampol fortified region"). Kamenets-Podolsky region was a different fortification area further to the west.

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#80

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 16 Sep 2017, 18:47

Alright, thank you for clarification.

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Jeff Leach
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Re: Stalin line

#81

Post by Jeff Leach » 30 Sep 2017, 12:22

DavidFrankenberg wrote: Why XXX Korps joined 5 days later than the XI Korps ? Was he delayed by some partisan operations on the road ?
No, the Soviets resisted the advance of the XXX Army Corps longer. The Soviet 4th Mechanized Corps (the tank symbol next to the 176 RfD on the map) attacked the German XI Army Corps on 4 and 5 July 1941 and then withdrew towards the southeast. The Soviet forces around Bel'tsy had to keep the retreat path open.

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#82

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 01 Oct 2017, 02:10

Thank you very much for your comment.

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Jeff Leach
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Re: Stalin line

#83

Post by Jeff Leach » 07 Oct 2017, 14:23

Here are details of the Stalin line fortifications in the sector of the 170th Infantry Division. The map is based on T314 R825 Fr0231.

Bunker '3' caused the most problems because of one stuSoviet officer that refused to surrender. In the end the German sealed up the embrasures of the earthen machine gun bunker and the blew it up with a 50 kg shaped charge. There is a really nice after-action report of this operation.
0231 - layer 4 test.png

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#84

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 08 Oct 2017, 00:28

Jeff Leach wrote: Bunker '3' caused the most problems because of one stuSoviet officer that refused to surrender. In the end the German sealed up the embrasures of the ear
Please, could you tell us if this "stuSoviet officer" has been made "Hero of the ussr" for that heroic defence, or do you have his name ? Thank you very much for the info Jeff.

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Jeff Leach
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Re: Stalin line

#85

Post by Jeff Leach » 08 Oct 2017, 10:02

The officer isn't named and the Soviet command certainly never learned of his deeds.

He is what the German document says,

"Combat against the smaller enemy positions (light concrete (leicht betonierte) or earthen machine gun bunkers (feldmässig gebaute)) took place throughout the attack sector. One particularly stubborn defensive position, was a machine gun bunker to the north of Yampol’. It wasn’t neutralized until 23:00 on 18 July when its crew was wiped out by the assault platoon of the 2./240th Pioneer Battalion. After a demolition charge was successfully detonated on one of the embrasures of the bunker, three completely disorientated men surrendered from the bunker. These men stated that there was still one officer in the bunker so two of the prisoners were sent back to convince him to surrender. After a short exchange of words, the officer inside the bunker shot the two Soviet prisoners at the entrance to the bunker. Hand grenades were thrown into the bunker but these had no effect. One Soviet officer and one enlisted man were taken from the prisoners captured earlier and sent to the bunker to try and convince the officer to surrender. This also failed and officer inside the bunker managed to convince the two prisoners to take up the fight again. There after the openings to the bunker were sealed off and a 50-kilogram shaped charge destroyed the bunker."

I personally feel the actions of the Soviet officer were heroic.

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Stalin line

#86

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 11 Oct 2017, 15:02

No doubt, he acted like a hero.

Since we know he was an officer and we know which bunker he occupied, would it not possible to find his name ? We wd need russian archives.

Thank you for your translation and informations Jeff.

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