Invasion vs Occupation

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
R. J. Kimmel
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Invasion vs Occupation

Post by R. J. Kimmel » 01 Apr 2002 21:54

In 1939 Hitler is said to have invaded Poland and it is said that the Russians occupied Poland. It has been proven that the Russians murdered thousands of Polish Officers, including a Priest, so tell me what is the difference with the German forces moving into Poland from one end and the Russian Forces moving in from the opposite side of the country

Richard

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 01 Apr 2002 22:01

R.J. Kimmel,

There is no difference. Both country, Germany and the Soviet Union are guilty of atrocities commited in Poland during the invasion of Poland in 1939 and after that too.

Regards

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Zapfenstreich
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A Sign of the Times

Post by Zapfenstreich » 01 Apr 2002 22:26

RJ

Remember that at that time the Soviet Union was looked upon as a potential ally in the sure-to-be coming war with Hitler and Nazi Germany.
To be succinct:

RUSSIANS GOOD!
GERMANS BAD!


Z

Abel Ravasz
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Post by Abel Ravasz » 01 Apr 2002 22:28

The only difference is that Soviets invaded Poland under the cover of help, as they did in the years coming after with the central and eastern european states.

Abel

R. J. Kimmel
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Post by R. J. Kimmel » 01 Apr 2002 22:46

Abel Ravasz

I am in need of information concerning a town in Hungry by the name of Jaszapati and the last German Luftwaffe Unit that was stationed there in 1945. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Abel Ravasz
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Post by Abel Ravasz » 01 Apr 2002 23:04

Suppose You should ask Denes Bernad, he is the hungary+airforce specialist although I'll try my best to localise the town.

Abel

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timoa
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Post by timoa » 02 Apr 2002 11:11

"RUSSIANS GOOD!
GERMANS BAD! "

i think russians are quite bad as well. at least for us finnish people they never did anything good.

timo

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re

Post by tonyh » 02 Apr 2002 11:47

This just demonstrates the slant that is placed upon certain instances and phrases etc. Germany invades because it sounds more sinister, but the Soviets occupy because it sounds a little more benign. Its simply designed to make allies or in the case of Russia, potential allies seem "good" as opposed to your enemy who will always be "bad".

It's the same when certain news agencies discuss the Middle East. The Israeli's aren't on occupied land any more, they're on "settlements". They didn't invade and occupy Palistinian land, they launched a "pre-emptive strike". But in contrast the Japanese, in WWII, launched a "sneek attack". The don't assinate Palistinian leaders anymore, they launch "necessary military actions". The Isreali's don't attack Palistinian people, but they are "under seige" from Palistine, even though its the Isreali's who have been occupying much of Palistinian land for over 20 years.

It's all horse shit, of course. But people will fall for it.

Tony

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Post by Davey Boy » 02 Apr 2002 15:16

Russians bad!

Germans bad!

Poles good!

Finns also good, though I haven't met too many. Actually, I also quite like the Dutch and the Danes...Swedes are mostly pretty cool...Czechs are way cool, and so are Hungarians...believe it or not, some of the best people I've ever met came from New Zealand...

...oops, I'm getting off track here. I think what I wanted to say was, the Soviet Union was the lesser of two evils for the allies.

In regards to Poland, the Germans wanted to completely destroy Polish culture, and either Germanize, kill or deport the entire Polish population. The Soviets only wanted to turn us into good communists, getting rid of those who weren't fit for that purpose. We've got some great neighbors, eh?

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Rob S.
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Post by Rob S. » 02 Apr 2002 15:27

The first warcrime of ww2 was Polish against German when combined military and police forces raped and piliged ethnic Germans in Poland before occupation. I'm not saying the Germans didn't return the favor, I'm just saying it happened.

The Russians were our (I'm an American) Allies during ww2 and much of the war was on their shoulders. The war obviously was won by the Russians.

However, to say that their early war involvements were "good" or "justified" is complete bullshit. Around this time they were planning/commiting cold war policies and actions 10-15 years before the cold war "officially" started. They had no intention to be our Allies before the Germans invaded them.

The Russian invasion of Finland and Poland was no more justified than the German invasion of France.

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Post by Davey Boy » 02 Apr 2002 15:44

It wasn't a matter of returning any favors. The Germans planned the destruction of Poland and Polish culture way ahead of the invasion. The fact that some ethnic Germans were raped or even murdered, as I'm sure some were, had no bearing on what the Reich was going to do to Poland. In fact, any Polish crimes against Germans only served the Nazis in their ultimate goal of wiping out our nation. Anyone who has any illusions about Hitler's plans for Poland is very naive or just can't accept the bleeding obvious. Oops, I better shut up now, or some German is gonna accuse me of ranting and raving.....ho, ho ho.... :D

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Post by Dan » 02 Apr 2002 16:08

Hi, Wehr.

Don't you have Russian attacks on Finland and German bashing in Poland chronologically backwards?

But at any rate, any date that decides when WW2 actually started is arbitrary.

I've been thinking more and more lately that the Germans and Americans were, after all the winners. Russia really did give her all, and should be respected to that extent, but the war left her a depopulated desert.

Germany on the other hand is controling a trading/political block that........Oh well, off topic. (When those countries that switched to the Euro were numbered, why didn't I see Estonia? Guess who's currency Estonia pegged theirs to..)

Regards
Dan

R. J. Kimmel
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Post by R. J. Kimmel » 02 Apr 2002 17:00

Good interesting views, lets keep it going.

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Antti V
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Post by Antti V » 02 Apr 2002 17:45

Dan wrote:(When those countries that switched to the Euro were numbered, why didn't I see Estonia? Guess who's currency Estonia pegged theirs to..)

Regards
Dan
Estonia is not a member of European Union. That is why they didn´t change their Kroon to Euro as Finland and almost all other EU countries did. But Estonia (=politicians at least) will take Euro happily when it joins to EU, that´s sure.
I do know few Estonians and they see in EU something similar as in Soviet Union: EU passports are red covered just like in Soviet Union. EU is leaded by Socialists/Social Democrats. And Commissars. Only difference is that EU´s economy is based on Capitalistic system, Soviet Union´s was Communistic. Hmmmm.... :?

And back to Third Reich after this offtopic comment, shall we? :D

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 02 Apr 2002 20:48

General Anders,

Poland have great neighbors!!! Just Kidding. I think the Soviets too wanted to destroy the Polish Culture. You mention getting rid of those who didn't want communism. You know what happened to them. They go directry to the Gulag. It was the ethnic cleansing of Poland by Stalin. I don't know if you have heard of the movie "A forgotten odyssey" It explains the deportation of the Polish people :(

Btw, A lot of Polish people that i met told me that they hate more the Russians than the Germans and they love the Canadians :) What do you think? Oups, maybe off topic...

Regards

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