What German Unit First Saw the Spires of the Kremlin?

[Dora]

All,
If this question has been asked before, please direct me to the appropriate post, if not, could someone please provide the date, unit type, unit size and identity of the unit that was proported to first see the Kremlin sometime in November/December 1941? Thanks in advance.
Dora

[Christoph Awender]

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23260

[Dora]

Christoph,
Do you know the identity of the German unit that occupied the town of Krasnaya Polyana, 20 miles north of Moscow in December 1941?
Thanks,
Dora

[ShinjiMimura]

According to Durschmied's book The Hinge Factor:

"5 December, 1941. North of [Moscow], the German 9th Army had reached a station of the Moscow public transport , a tram stop 30km from Moscow centre. [On 4th December], a patrol of German grenadiers of the 62nd Pioneer Battalion had entered the Moscow suburb of Chimki."

Read more from his book, I'm sure it says something about them being able to see the spires of Moscow.

[ShinjiMimura]

As to what unit reached Krasnaya Polyana, I believe it was forward elemnts of the 26. Infanteriedivision (from a quick Google search).

[Dora]

Shinjimimura,
Thanks for the research and information.
Dora

[Miha Grcar]

Guderian made Krasnaya Polyana his HQ for a couple of days in 1941, it was there that he decided to withdraw his forces. - just an interesting fact.

best,
Miha / Nibelung

[tigre]

hello to all, a tiny info.

First the 2nd Pz Army (Guderian) reached Yasnaya Polyana, Tula region (Tolstoi homeland). The 2nd Pz division reached Krasnaya Polyana; a kampfgruppe (LtCol Decker) reached Ozeretskoye and the men of the II / 304 SR were at Gorki (30 kms from Moscow centre). The men of the 38 Pz Pionier Bataillon destroyed the station at Lobnia (15 kms from the city centre). Taken from "El Tercer Reich - Los generales de Hitler y sus batallas (2º parte), Bock la batalla por Moscú"

Just a question, how far moved forward the troops of the 258 ID?. Regards. Tigre.

[Miha Grcar]

But of course Tigre, my mistake.

best,
Miha

[Ustuf]

hello to all, a tiny info.

The men of the 38 Pz Pionier Bataillon destroyed the station at Lobnia (15 kms from the city centre). Taken from "El Tercer Reich - Los generales de Hitler y sus batallas (2º parte), Bock la batalla por Moscú"

a little remarque:

Lobnya is AT LEAST 40 km from Moscow centre.
Our family`s countryhouse is close to Lobnya, I used to ride a bicycle through fields still heavily trenched, in my childhood

[tigre]

Thank you for the input Ustuf, it is possible that in the original sources of the book quoted was written 15 miles rather than 15 kilometers. By the way any info about the point (farthest from the border) reached by the 258 ID?. TIA. Regards. Tigre.

[Ustuf]

By the way any info about the point (farthest from the border) reached by the 258 ID?. TIA. Regards. Tigre.

The point closest to the center of Moscow, reached by 41st reconnaissance battalion of 258th ID was, according to some sources (William Shirer`s testimonials based on Berlin newspapers), the bridge in the area of Rechnoi Vokzal (now within Moscow border). The area is slightly on a rise so, given a little fantasy, one of course can see Kremlin`s spires.

Attaching a piece of my amazing craftwork (sorry for poor quality)

[tigre]

Thank you Ustuf, great answer. .Cheers. Tigre.

[JC]

I believe that it is generally accepted that units of the 2 Pz.Div. came the closest to the center of Moscow when they reached Khimki, Ozeretskoye, and Lobnja on November 30.

I have read the passage in Shirer where he claims the recon Bn. of the 258 In.Div. (which, BTW, was Aufk. Abt. 258 not Aufk. Abt. 41) reached Khimki on Decemebr 2, but I doubt that he is correct. The 258 ID was part of the XX A.K. of the 4 Armee and was fighting in the Naro-Fominsk area, well south of the troops attacking toward Khimki. It is unlikely that the recon unit of the division would have crossed over the line of advance of 3 or 4 Korps, plus into the area of a completly different Army (4 Panzerarmee) to reach the Khimki area.

JC

[Ustuf]

I believe that it is generally accepted that units of the 2 Pz.Div. came the closest to the center of Moscow when they reached Khimki, Ozeretskoye, and Lobnja on November 30.

I have read the passage in Shirer where he claims the recon Bn. of the 258 In.Div. (which, BTW, was Aufk. Abt. 258 not Aufk. Abt. 41) reached Khimki on Decemebr 2, but I doubt that he is correct. The 258 ID was part of the XX A.K. of the 4 Armee and was fighting in the Naro-Fominsk area, well south of the troops attacking toward Khimki. It is unlikely that the recon unit of the division would have crossed over the line of advance of 3 or 4 Korps, plus into the area of a completly different Army (4 Panzerarmee) to reach the Khimki area.

JC

I agree with JC.
Shirer`s testimonials were based on Nazi newspapers, so I doubt 258ID ever reached Khimki bridge.
It will be great to see the initial source of the info Shirer presented in his book.