In this topic Stephan wrote: "...By the way. I have a vague memory they painted the spires with camouflage-colours (against air-discovery f.eks)..."
then Ustuf replied: "Never heard of it, maybe I`m just uninformed. Anyone has a picture of camouflaged Kremlin spires?
It would be very interesting to have a look."
Stephan later wrote: "Second - if correct the towers were camouflagepainted at that time - they would be impossible to see a winter day, Zeiss binoculars or not.
And Im more and more sure I did read they were camouflage-painted. The whole area around Kremlin, Red Market? - so bombers should lost orientation and dont find them too easy. So if the whole area, so surely also the towers and spires.
The Red Marked painted as if there were streets and houses. Not simply a big blotch of green-gray-black camouflage-paint giving away there WAS something to hide..."
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Today I've read interesting witness account of what Red Square looked like in autumn 1943. Altough I'm not sure if this camouflage was already there in 1941 and if the spires themselves were camouflaged or not.
Ivan Yakushin: "On the Roads of War. A Soviet Cavalryman on the Eastern Front" Pen & Sword Miltary, GB 2005, ISBN 1 84415 144 1, p. 51:
"Moscow looked strict and stern in 1943. Red Square seemed quite small to me - probably because there were dumy building roofs painted on the pavement, in order to deceive German bombers. Even dummy building silhouettes were painted on the Kremlin walls..."
During forum search I also found that Bigpanzer also confirmed the information of such camouflage as descripted above, here, in post which include photos:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=75471
What German Unit First Saw the Spires of the Kremlin?
Sorry, but I don't think any German unit saw the spires of the Kremlin. You can't see it
from Krasnaya Polnya, or from Khimky (or even from a km east of today's IKEA - even
on a clear day and eliminating from line-of-sight, large post war buildings.
It might have been possible to see other spires of churches between the Kremlin and
the front.
from Krasnaya Polnya, or from Khimky (or even from a km east of today's IKEA - even
on a clear day and eliminating from line-of-sight, large post war buildings.
It might have been possible to see other spires of churches between the Kremlin and
the front.
If you have rode from the Moscow Airport to Red Square.....
...You will pass the monument of giant metal beams, loooking like anti-tank obsticles. This is the point the of the maximum advance into Moscow by the Germans. It is well within Moscow City limits. I passed them on the way to the hotel I was a staying in adjacent to Red Square.
I would swear that I was at the hotel 15 minutes after I saw the monument in moderate traffic. I remember being flabbergasted at how close to the Kremlin it was.
It could not have been more than 15 kilometers.
Certainly others must have seen this same monument on the way to Central Moscow from the airport?
I would swear that I was at the hotel 15 minutes after I saw the monument in moderate traffic. I remember being flabbergasted at how close to the Kremlin it was.
It could not have been more than 15 kilometers.
Certainly others must have seen this same monument on the way to Central Moscow from the airport?
Re:
Have you still go these photos? Apparently, the link is no longer active. If you have them it would be immensely appreciated if you could repost them. ThanksToKu wrote: ↑29 Jan 2006, 00:14Here is the situation In Krasana Polana on 4 - 5 December 1941:
Dywizja Pancerna = Panzer Division
Dywizja Piechoty = Infantry Division
Pułk Strzelców = Fusiliere? Regiment
Radz. = Soviet
Armia = Army
gen. mjr = general major
x. Bat. y Pułku = x. Battalion of y Regiment
Here are men of 2nd Panzer on forward observation post, date 3rd of December:
Here what they saw:
Last picture is titled: Krasna Polana, 3rd of December, picture taken through binoculars on forward observation post: Moscow outskirts with dachas.
All photos taken from: Janusz Piekałkiewicz “Bitwa o Moskwę” (Battle for Moscow), Warsaw 2004, original title “Die schlacht um Moskau”, Bergisch Gladbach 1992