Danzig 1945

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 25 Jan 2006 15:25

Well , could anyone provide me the name of the Ic of 2nd Army ? Still looking for him ...


Jan-Hendrik

mietek
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Post by mietek » 25 Jan 2006 15:28

Prit wrote:4 Pz. Div. was mainly in action west of the city, defending Zuckau/Pempau, withdrawing by stages to Viereck/Bastenhagen/Leesen, then to the city itself. It also had to loan much of its armour to neighbouring formations, with a particularly notable action taking place east of Oliva where a small armoured force supported 389 Inf. Div. at 'Neue Welt'.
Prit


Some sources mention that tanks were destroyed in the area of Zigannen Berg, but the problem is that I do not know any details. What tanks? How they were destroyed? Where exactly?


Larry D. wrote:mietek -
Have you ever seen in the Polish literature a complete list of all German units - Heer, Luftwaffe, KM, etc., down to the smallest independent Kp. and Zug - that were trapped in the Danzig pocket in March-April 1945? I'm particularly interested in Luftwaffe ground (Bodenorganisation - signal, Flak, airfield service and support troops) units.


Yes, but I have the book in Poland (in Gdansk of course), but it is not as detailed as you want. I'll ask some people who are LW experts to look at this thread.

Larry D.
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Post by Larry D. » 25 Jan 2006 16:24

Mietek wrote:

Larry D. wrote:
mietek -
Have you ever seen in the Polish literature a complete list of all German units - Heer, Luftwaffe, KM, etc., down to the smallest independent Kp. and Zug - that were trapped in the Danzig pocket in March-April 1945? I'm particularly interested in Luftwaffe ground (Bodenorganisation - signal, Flak, airfield service and support troops) units.




Yes, but I have the book in Poland (in Gdansk of course), but it is not as detailed as you want. I'll ask some people who are LW experts to look at this thread.


Thanks, Mietek!

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Prit
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Post by Prit » 25 Jan 2006 16:27

Mietek, I don't have my material here with me at work, but I will check tonight.

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 25 Jan 2006 18:47

Prit wrote:Mietek, 4 Pz. Div. was mainly in action west of the city, defending Zuckau/Pempau, withdrawing by stages to Viereck/Bastenhagen/Leesen, then to the city itself. It also had to loan much of its armour to neighbouring formations (...)


We have to distinguish between the sub-units of the 4.PzDiv. The main armoured force was the Panzer Regiment 35, then there was the Arillerie Regiment 103, and Panzer Aufklaerungs Abteilung 4. Plus two regiments of Panzergrenadiere.
The first bataillon of the PR35 was equipped with Panther tanks (3rd company with Jagdpanther), while the second bataillon - with PzKpfw IV. The artillery regiment was equipped mainly with Wespe and Hummel self-propelled howitzers and, of course, towed howitzers and guns.
The PR35 had very few combat ready tanks at the moment when the Russians began to enter the suburbs, i.e. on March, 24th. The last tanks left were deployed against Russian attack from Oliva which headed for Langfuhr. They cooperated with the 389.ID and GR62 "Feldherrnhalle" from the 7.ID. Some tanks of PR35 were destroyed (mostly: self-destroyed) somewhere between Oliva and Langfuhr, which definitely is not the Zigankenberg. That place should be rather matched with the PAA4. I haven't heard of a group of tanks being destroyed there - the Germans had just few tanks and these were dispersed between the units from Oliva, through Langfuhr, Miggau to Emaus. Some more tanks were kept behind the lines, while the repair works were performed on them. Sometimes, in the evening (e.g. on March, 26th) there was not a single tank combat ready. But on the following night, some of the repaired vehicles made it back to the frontline.

The deployment of howitzers from the AR103 is scarcely mentioned. On March, 26th they were at the firing positions at Langfuhr and two days later, at the bank of river Mottlau.

The important remark is that the 2nd bataillon of PR35 gave its few last PzKpfw IV to the 1st bataillon on March, the 18th. Then, the new sub-units were settled from the part of redundant personnel - the Panzer-Vernichtungs Kompanie 35 and Panzer-Begleit Kompanie.

(...)with a particularly notable action taking place east of Oliva where a small armoured force supported 389 Inf. Div. at 'Neue Welt'


West of Oliva. It was on March the 18th. Two Panthers from the 4th company destroyed 1 Stalin, 2 ISU, 2 AT-guns, while 3 more Stalins were damaged and forced to retreat. I've heard of far better achievements ;)

brgds,
Michal from Gdansk
Last edited by beaviso on 25 Jan 2006 19:18, edited 1 time in total.

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 25 Jan 2006 18:53

pavle wrote:If i'm correct some units of the grossdeutschland defended zoppot, do you perhaps know which unit?
Or which wehrmacht units defended zoppot?


None of the GD units took part in the defence of Danzig-Zoppot-Gotenhafen. Possibly only single soldiers, enrolled temporarily to other units. From the infantry units defending Zoppot there should be Wehrmacht's 73.ID, 83.ID and 389.ID mentioned, plus their attached Marine-Schuetzen and SS-Polizei units.

cheers,
Michal
Last edited by beaviso on 25 Jan 2006 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 25 Jan 2006 19:11

Larry D. wrote:Have you ever seen in the Polish literature a complete list of all German units - Heer, Luftwaffe, KM, etc., down to the smallest independent Kp. and Zug - that were trapped in the Danzig pocket in March-April 1945? I'm particularly interested in Luftwaffe ground (Bodenorganisation - signal, Flak, airfield service and support troops) units.


Polish literature on this subject is incomplete and, in fact, doesn't even exist. Maybe awaits for me to create it, haha :) The best and only sources are German. I went through most of them and didn't see such a detailed listing. It's simply impossible to come across such. These units were so badly "worn out", that a "bataillon" could usually have had a strength of at most a company.
I can't recall any LW units mentioned, except from two:
- the 12th LW Field Division, fighting southwest of Gdansk
- the rest of Fallschirm Panzer Ersatz und Ausbildungs Regiment Hermann Goering 1 (or 2) - at the time the battle of Danzig city began - only 150 men, but listed as 2 bataillons (!)
There were also Flak units, the numbers of which I can't recall, and ground crew of Danzig-Langfuhr airfield. I've read that some of them joined the HG unit (around March, the 19th, i.e. before the battle of Oliva) and the GR62 which was fighting north of Langfuhr - at the airfield and the outskirts of the main town structure. This is exactly where I live today, whilst the GR62 HQ quartered in the building of my secondary school :)

kind regards,
Michal "Beaviso"

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Prit
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Post by Prit » 25 Jan 2006 21:47

Ah, Michal, don't be so harsh.

One of the two Panthers had a dead engine and had to be towed into action by the other. To knock out several enemy vehicles and hold their position despite this - I call that notable!

Prit

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 25 Jan 2006 23:06

Hi Prit,

Interesting info about the dead-engined Panther. Is it from "Panzer an der Weichsel"?
But there were another interesting tank battles near Danzig:
- 3 Jagdpanthers led by Ofw. Bix (3./PR35) and his platoon comrades Igel and Schwaffert, attacked a group of abt. 20 Russian tanks which gathered in a village. The attack was performed at dusk, from safe distance, but enough for a long-barreled 8.8 cm gun to be deadly effective. Bix destroyed 11 tanks, and his comrades 4 each - which makes 19 altogether, with no losses. I talked to 2 men from the whereabouts of that village and they confirm a fact, that a lot of destroyed tanks were standing in the nearby fields for several years after the war. It corresponds with Bix report, in which he said that Russian tanks had been trying to escape from the village through the fields.
- Recently I was told of a battle in which the Germans lost 2 Tiger tanks, and the Russians... 56 vehicles!
- During the battle in Oliva forest, a single malfunctioned but well hidden Koenigstiger managed to destroy as much as 12 Russian vehicles...
The figures are quite astonishing, aren't they?

brgds,
M.

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Nicodemus
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Post by Nicodemus » 30 Jan 2006 19:01

Hi everyone,

I am very happy with all the info that you guys provided, thanks a lot for that!
However, I still have a few questions regarding some of the photo's.

photo: A Werfer and an SdKfz 251/22 destroyed on the beach of Gdynia. What units were equipped with these armoured vehicles? Did 4.Panzer have any SdKfz 251/22's in Panzerjäger units. I think the Werfer is from Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 103.

Regards,

Nick
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Mark V.
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Post by Mark V. » 30 Jan 2006 20:02

Hi Nicodemus!

According to this publication http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?FRI-008 , the vehicles in the photo above belong to 7.Pz.Div.
Image
The Sd kfz 251/22 Ausf D armoured personnel carrier's 75-mm antitank self-propelled gun. The self-propelled gun was organic to the 78th field artillery regiment, 7th panzer division. East Pomerania, vic. Gdynia (Gotenhafen), March 1945

Image
Panzerwerfer 42 rocket launcher (WH 1409081) organic to the 78th field artillery regiment, 7th panzer division. East Pomerania, vic. Gdynia, March 1945

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?FRI-008

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 30 Jan 2006 20:29

Nicodemus, please also mention the source for the photo.

Panzeralex
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Post by Panzeralex » 30 Jan 2006 20:33

Hi, all.
4 Pz.D had 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/22 in each Pz.Gren.Btl. from Pz.Gren.Rgt. 12.
However on pic Sd.Kfz. 251/22 not from 4 Pz.D, but from 7 Pz.D.

Else pic from Frontline Illustration Tank troops of the Wehrmacht. Part 1: On flanks of a Reich


Best regards,
Panzeralex.
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Prit
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Post by Prit » 31 Jan 2006 13:55

If they are on the beach at Gdynia, they are more likely to be 7 Pz.Div than 4 Pz.Div.

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Nicodemus
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Post by Nicodemus » 31 Jan 2006 18:10

The source of my photo is http://www.pomorze.gd.gl. Thanks for all the info by the way.

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