Danzig 1945

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Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Feb 2006 14:19

Was the staff of 170.ID evacuated or not ?

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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questio to beaviso

Post by pavle » 15 Apr 2006 10:33

Dear Beaviso,

I'm doing research on the GD division after it's redrawal from the Memel bridgehead.
It seems that the surviving units were send(some parts) to Gotenhafen, to reassemble and form a new front in this area..
Do you perhaps know of such a report asking surviving members of the division to regroup in the Gotenhafen area..
As for the defence of Zoppot, is it true that the defenses were put up by the wehrmacht div. on the west side of Zoppot?
Meaning that the russians already passed under zoppot and gotenhafen, and surrounded the whole area, hence building the defenses on the west side of Zoppot instead of the eastern side??

Please help me out with this one, its crucial for my research :wink:

Thanks very much pavle.

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 15 Apr 2006 12:12

Yes , the area of Zoppot and Gotenhafen was defended by VII.PzKps , XXXXV.Ak and XXVII.Ak ( from north to south ) , units ( the same as above , from north to south ) : KGr. 251.ID , KGr. 4.SSPol. , 7.PzD , KGr. 215.ID , 32.ID , KGr. 227.ID , 73.ID , KGr. 389.ID KGr. 252.ID ( according to a Lagekarte of HGr. Nord , printed in "Letzte Schlacht an der Ostfont" by Hans Jürgen Pantenius ) .

As Red Army managed indeed to break through the lines in the Middle of Eastern Pomorania they attacked indeed from West to East as they failed to destroy the defences in the Danzig area in the weeks before . By the way , the GD did not fought in this area , this division fought in East Prussia ) .

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 16 Apr 2006 12:50

Thank you, but after the Memel drama for the GD where did the division regroup?
Wasn't there an order to reassemble at Gotenhafen? (for small surviving units after the retreat from Memel, after all the whole division was stationed in Memel)
I'm almost sure that some GD units were to gather at Gotenhafen.
Can some of the Polish experts help me out at this one?

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 16 Apr 2006 13:21

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /PGDGD.htm

gives Rastenburg instead of Gdingen :wink:

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pavle
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Post by pavle » 16 Apr 2006 13:43

The evacuation of all Heer troops in Memel succeeded in approximately end of januar 45.
GD troops fled by boat or crossed the Frisches Haf on foot (over the ice).
Those who did managed to escape indeed fought one of their last battles around Pillau/konigsberg, allthough konigsberg was already surrounded..
Which wehrmacht forces defended Pillau?(all i know the 4th armee was at the south) i think that a panzer division was also present(an account i read says there were some halftrack's with rocket launchers/75mm guns (DCA's?), could this have been the 7th pz?)
A russian armoured brigade was around the town of Pillau, and had propably an staging area.
The eyewitness account i read says that german GD and other wehrmacht troops(panzerjaeger) with panzerfausts were to attack the russian armoured units with their panzerfausts(this was in and around the town of Pillau itself)can anyone clearify that attack actually took place??

Thanks Pavle

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 16 Apr 2006 14:32

Well . In end of November 1944 GD was transported from Memel to Pillau and sent from Pillau to the Truppenübungsplatz Arys to refit .

In January there were NO GD troops in Memel anymore , just 58. & 95.ID .

In April 1945 in the Samland were fighting :

GD
5.PzDiv.
50.ID
551.VGD
95.ID
93.ID
58.ID
1.ID
21.ID
28.JägDiv
561.VGD
558.VGD

Pillau was defended by LV.Ak ( Kdr. GL Chill )

with 558.VGD
Stab 286.SichDiv
KGr. 50.ID

Sources :

Ulrich Saft "Krieg im Osten - Das bittere Ende jenseits der Weichsel bis Oder und Neisse"
Hans Jürgen Pantenius "Letzte Schlacht an der Ostfont"

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ToKu
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Post by ToKu » 16 Apr 2006 14:39

I've got a question too.

What is the source for information that GD took part in fights for Memel during Soviet winter 45' offensive? Except Sajer's book which seem to be inaccurate here.
This division was fighting in Eastern Prussia, but not in Memel area. Much further south. Neidenburg, Bischofburg, Wartenburg, Lautren, Balga - those are places were GD was fighting AFAIK. It seem very unreasonable to me to throw this division through Kurishe Nehrung, to Memel, just to be evacuated (no other way was possible as Soviets cut Memel off Eastern Prussia).

map of GD fights in Eastern Prussia in 1945:

Image

Division took part in fights in Latvia and Lithuania in Memel area, but in November 1944. It is possible that some parts of this division stayed there until Memel fell to Soviets, but main part of the division took part in fights in Eastern Prussia in winter - spring 1945. Division was trapped in Heiligenbeil pocket, some parts were evacuated through Pilau, mostly to Weichsel Nehrung, were they fought until the end of war.

Map taken from http://www.panzer24.prv.pl

P.S. Thanks for clearing things up Jan Hendrik, You were faster with Your reply.
Last edited by ToKu on 16 Apr 2006 16:09, edited 4 times in total.

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 16 Apr 2006 14:49

Yes :D

But after the Heiligenbeilkessel GD fought still in the Samland in April ( about 4000 Mann that were the last to escape from Balga ) .

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pavle
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Post by pavle » 16 Apr 2006 15:47

Some units of GD penetrated the russian encirclement of Memel about the end of 1944.
And took part of the defenses in Memel, around that time as before it was normal that the GD was split up in different kampfgruppes to attack russian forces,(also end 44, beginning 45)
The GD veteran Rudi Salvermoser was also situated around end 44 in Memel so thats clear that GD was in Memel.
But the evacuation of the Memel bridgehead did not transfered all of the remnants of the division offcourse, some small units stayed, or fled over the frisches nehrung, to konigsberg, pillau and various other places..

As Jan Hendrik explained they badly needed to refit after the ordeal.
But it seems very likely that scattered forces and former GD members were positioned in several battles in and around danzig, pillau etc..

Before Memel Gd was united with the Brandenburg division,was there any cohesive division to speak of after Memel, or did the unition of GD and Brandenburg seased after those fierce battles.

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 16 Apr 2006 15:58

Ähm , as I remember correctly Mr.Salvermoser was in the FührerGrenadierBrigade before he got wounded , not GD ...

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pavle
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Post by pavle » 16 Apr 2006 16:36

Yes youre right it was gefreiter Thomas Waldcheck: (members shaw GD site)

In November 1944 I was wounded for the second time, once again from Katyusha fire. The shell fragments hit my hand and my knee. I was taken to the Luftwaffe field hospital Number 6 in the city of Memel. On November 28 the GD division got evacuated from the besieged Memel by ship.

This clearifies GD being more than present in Memel.
But how i got mixed up with Rudi S????

Jan Hendrik what is your opinion about this question:
Do you think its likely that not all of GD troops were evacuated all at once and that it is possible a few small units were left behind or did not make it to the evacuation point.
Do you think that all GD remnants were assembled at the refit station?

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 16 Apr 2006 17:08

Sorry , I have no detailed material about GD , but , as it appears in my sources , the history of this unit is very chaotic after autumn 1944 as it should have been an elementary unit of the newly raised GD-Panzerkorps . So , I think it is surely not impossible what you indicated :wink:

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rectification fighting in Pillau

Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 11:47

Jan Hendrik in my previous post i made a mistake:

I said i read an account of some GD men fighting in Pillau, but what i meant was: there was a hole in the german defences
in the area of Zoppot, and a few units were rushed in to fill the gaps in the frontline, but those units ended up fighting in
BRÖSSEL , which units defended Brossel? was there a panzer division present?

There were some sdkfz with rocket launchers, and 75mm guns, could this had been a armoured artillery unit from perhaps the 7th panzer.?

Memel was defended at the last stage of the siege by 58 I.D. and 95 I.D.
Jan Hendrik do you know something of an german attack from Memel to reestablish contact with the front in Konigsberg
It supposedly was an attack that followed the shore line south to the area of Konigsberg, the attack soon came bogged down
and the involved infantry units were supported by heavy artillery fire from the Prinz Eugen battleship.

Do you know anything of this attack?

Best Pavle :wink:

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 12:11

Oh Pavle , you have a hand for complicated questions :D

In Zoppot were the remants of 389.ID , but nothing that could be near to GD :wink:

On tank untis , maybe there were meant parts of 4thPanzerDivision , Hans Schäufler gave a great account on this last fightings in his "Panzer an der Weichsel" , which I sorrowly have not at hand at the moment .

To Memel I will come back when I have more time , OK ?

Jan-Hendrik

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