Danzig 1945

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
pavle
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Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 12:24

Thanks Jan Hendrik!

But to be sure i know GD was not present in the area of Zoppot, but as we already agreed on it could be very likely that some stragglers of the GD were left behind or missed the evacuation from Memel thus they fled over the ice (FRische Nehrung) towards Danzig, or perhaps Pillau by boat or on foot.

I am talking about a former member of the GD who missed the evacuation with the main part of GD from Memel
and who fled across the Frisches Nehrung towards Danzig, then he was transported to Zoppot to build up the defences there(an scrambled alarm unit) and later on he ended up fighting in Bróssel.

I would like to know which units defended the area of Brossel, and if there was a panzer division in the neighbourhood
maybe some field artillery regiment (with sdkfz armed with rocket launchers and 75 mm guns)

I will patiently await your view on the matter..

P.S. is the account of Hans Schlaufer posted on Panzer-Archiv about the 4th panzer? if so i would like to read the account :wink:

Thanks Pavle.

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 12:41

Not really , maybe you might ask @ndrew if he would be so kind to send you the fitting parts via mail :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 13:41

OT

I'm sorry i don't have a clue who @ndrew is ???
But i would very much like to ask him for the account of SchlÄfer (4th pz.div)
BTW where is the superb account of Will Fey s.SS.pz.abt 502 (ausbruch unter dem untergang topic) the account of the last 2 Koti's
breaking out of the pocket? cant find it anymore :cry:

Thanks Pavle.

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 14:18

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=2677

For @ndrew , well , take a look in the fortifications-section or use the forum search :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 15:27

By the way , some interesting maps of the area you may find on Shingos Website :

http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/ayane1994/ ... hoo.co.jp/

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 18:08

Great Maps!

Amazing to see how big actually the Kurland pocket was in january 45'
You can see the Memel pocket quite clearly defended indeed by 95/58 I.D. but at that time it was not more than
7 kilometers wide and same for the depth..
On the landtongue frisches haf in the middle between Memel and Konigsberg you see this unit z.b.v.607 what was that for unit?
In the south a few kilometers above Konigsberg was the 286th I.D. but Konigsberg was far from surrounded around that time.
Also the XV11 korps was on the right.
When exactly did the frontline around konigsberg collapsed?

In the Kurland pocket was Windau an important harbor for shipping the troops towards germany?

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 18:16

With you interest in that particular area in 1945 I would hardly recommend you to get Ulrich Safts "Krieg im Osten - Das bittere Ende jenseits der Weichsel bis Oder und Neisse" :wink:

There you may find an answer to nearly 95 % of your questions regarding Easerten & Western Prussia and Pomorania for 1945 , inclusive detailed info on the concerned units 8-)

Jan-Hendrik

P.S. Please don't feel offended by my answer , but this goes to far and is colliding with the time I need for my private research projects , hope you may understnd this :?

pavle
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Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 18:28

No, not at all

But i was kinda hoping if you could (that would be the last thing i ask) tell me something about the alledgedly
attack from Memel southwards to the vicinity of Konigsberg..

If not no problem! i will try to get the book from Ulrich Saft..

Thanks for your great help so far...

Best Pavle..

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 22 Apr 2006 18:32


pavle
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Post by pavle » 22 Apr 2006 18:48

Incredible, Thanks for all your help so far! :D

Best Pavle..

beaviso
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Post by beaviso » 09 Jun 2006 18:13

pavle wrote:I am talking about a former member of the GD who missed the evacuation with the main part of GD from Memel and who fled across the Frisches Nehrung towards Danzig, then he was transported to Zoppot to build up the defences there(an scrambled alarm unit) and later on he ended up fighting in Bróssel.


Hi Pavle,

Well, I've found this thread again! I live in Gdansk (Danzig) and am focused on its war history. I've collected Saft, Pantenius and some other sources, including divisional chronicles. None of them says about the GD detachment fighting near Danzig/Zoppot/Gotenhafen.
When you mention a former member of GD, you think of Guy Sayer, the author of the book "Forgotten Soldier", right? Please note that there are many questions to the factual value of this book. Personally, I've chcecked in a full database that there is NO place named "Broessel" (and similar) in the radius of 50 km from Danzig/Zoppot/Gotenhafen. The one and only, which could fit, is the suburb of Danzig, named Broesen. I live some 1-2 km from Broesen, so trust me, I know the place very well. I read the corresponding part of Sayer's book carefully many times and I categorically say, that Broesen surely is not the place where he could have been fighting. The timeline of Sayer's fights and retreats just doesn't fit the real situation in this area. If he had been fighting in Broesen, he wouldn't have had a single chance to get back to Gotenhafen as he describes. The description fits to some village placed 5-10 km West from Gdansk/Zoppot/Gotenhafen (then the timeline would fit the reality), but - again - there was not a single foxhole named similiarly to "Broessel".

According Broesen, it wasn't defended by GR62 FHH, but by the Kgr. 73 (rest of 73.ID plus Marine Schuetzen Bataillon 109). The chronicle of 7.ID (which GR62 belonged to) doesn't mention any GD unit in this area. Btw. This is my favourite unit, as they fought right where I live today and their command post was in the building of my secondary school - the holes in the bricks made by shelling are still visible :) The interesting thing is that the chronicle of 7.ID mentions a SS-unit which held positions in Broesen. Well, this is impossible to confirm, but I think that they could be the rest of the Latvian-SS which previously fought together with Kgr.73 in the Oliva Forest, NW of Gdansk.

Best regards from the very heart of the old battlefield,
Michal (from Flugplatz Langfuhr)

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Jun 2006 19:14

A , thanks for reviving this thread , Michal 8-)

It seems you are on the same source level as myself ...

Do you have the history of IR 213 already ? If not drop me a PM :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

pavle
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Post by pavle » 10 Jun 2006 11:41

Thank you Beaviso!

For elaborating this, i know it is hard to imagine those accounts are true, but Sajer states that he tired to get to Zoppot from Gotenhafen , but got only halfway (Z-G) so he ended up in street fighting in some village, betweeen the two places...

I know that there was a Brössen, N-W of Danzig the same suburb you have mentioned...strange thing is that Sajer does gets a lot of places, data right except for the Brn. part, strange because the memoirs at the end of the book seem to be more clear then his accounts from earlier episodes..

Sajer mentions that right after the streetfighting he disembarks on a boat Pretoria Luxury Liner that depatred from Gthfn.
on 27th March, That is right according to a eyewitness account after that the Pr. sailed off to Denmark,
So the village fighting must had been around 20/26th March in an area of approximately 5 mile radius around Zoppot, Gotenhafen...

If you want you can post some info on the streetfighting in Brössen itself, you mentioned the 73rd ID being there also some remnants of 15th Latvian ss, feel free to post some info please...

All the best

Pavle...

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 20 Sep 2006 09:22

Part of Map HGr. Nord from 25.3.45 :

Image

Source :

Hans Jürgen Pantenius , "Letzte Schlacht an der Ostfront - von Döberitz bis Danzig"

Jan-Hendrik

Bug_racer
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Post by Bug_racer » 21 Sep 2006 13:57

Does anyone know if any HJ units fought here ?

Also was there any Axis air support or any airfields nearby ?

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