Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Discussions on WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean. Hosted by Andy H
Mcohen
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 21 Apr 2019 15:19
Location: New Jersey

Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Mcohen » 21 Apr 2019 15:31

I am looking for literature to read about the Panzer-Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno, which, as I understand, largely was stationed on the Sorrento Peninsula. Preferably, I it would be best for the literature to be in English, but accounts in German or Italian would also be welcomed. There likely isn't anything that focuses on their role in the battle, but larger histories on the Division would be helpful.

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 6837
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 06 May 2019 02:08

Theres fragments in the English language histories of the battle. 'Salerno' by Hugh Pond. Jacksons 'The Battle for Italy', Atkinsons 'Day of Battle', ect... From these its possible to get some sense of the unit, but not the same as a focused narrative. Hopefully someone else has a better recommendation for you.

User avatar
Leo Niehorster
Member
Posts: 1342
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 22:07
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Leo Niehorster » 06 May 2019 06:56

There's a few pages about PzD HG Salerno in Roger James Bender & George A. Petersen "Hermann Göring" = From Regiment to Panzerkorps=   Bender, San Jose, Calif, 1975.   ISBN 0-912138-12-2 (Maybe through library lending?)
Of course, it is from 1975, so some data is possibly "degraded" by now. Has some good background info on the unit, though.
--
Leo
Information not passed on is lost.
URL: World War II Armed Forces

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 08 Sep 2019 19:54

Rich kindly posted some details of the Flak-Regiment of Division "HG" in Sep 43 over on Feldgrau:
Flak-Regiment HG as of 1 September 1943 consisted of a Stab and support Batterien, I. and II. Abteilung. Regimental strength was given as 67 officers, 11 Beamte, 354 NCO, and 1,947. Strength of the Stab and I Abteilung was 100%, for II. Abteilung it was 79%. The Regiments Stab had 2 MG, signals section, 2 MG, the Vo(?) section had 2 MG and the (?) section had 1 MG.

I Abteilung consisted of 1.-5.Batterie, Stab, signals and a supply column. 1.-3.Batterie were identical, each with 4 8,8cm Flak and 3 2cm Flak, and, except for 1.Batterie which had 1, 2 MG. 4. and 5.Batterie were also identical, each had 12 2cm Flak, except 4.Batterie had 2 MG and 5. had 1. The 48-ton supply column had 2 MG, the signals section had 3.

II Abteilung had 6.-11Batterie, Stab, signals and a supply column. 6.-8.Batterie were identical, with 4 8,8cm, 3 2cm and 3 MG each. 9. Batterie had 12 2cm Flak and 4 MG, 10.Batterie had 12 2cm Flak and 3 MG. 11.Batterie had 14 2cm(v) Flak and 6 MG. The Stab had 2 MG, but neither the signals section nor the supply column had MG.

None of the 2cm Flak appear to have been SP, but that is not entirely clear.

Attached to the HG was also I./Flak-Rgt. 49 with 37 officers, 291 NCO and 810 men (given as 100% strength). 1.-3. Batterie were identical with 4 8.8cm and 3 2cm Flak and 3 MG each. 4. Batterie had 9 SP 3.7cm Flak and 2 MG. 5.B atterie had 9 SP 2cm Flak and 3 2cm(v) Flak (it is unclear if the (v) were SP or not).
Hope that helps.
He also helpfully added:
The divisional Zustandberichte filed with the Generalinspekteur der Panzertruppen on 6 September 1943. The file stamp indicates it was received on 15 September. October-December 1943 are available as well, they may be found in NARA RG78,R621 (IIRC, I don't have my notes immediately to hand).

Okay, just checked your web reference and - with the exception of the tank strength - it all appears based upon the Sollstaerke of some planned divisional TO & E.

First, all three battalions of the Panzer-Regiment were active, although weak.
Second, PGR HG-1 consisted of the II. Bataillon only (foremerly the Feldersatz-Bataillon "HG") with 5.-8. Kompanie). There was no I Bataillon (it was being reformed) and there was no III Bataillon. The Regiments-Einheiten (aside from the Stab) were 9. Kompanie with 6 15cm sIG (Sfl), 10. Kompanie with 4 15cm sIG (mot), and 11. Kompanie, which was being reformed in Germany as a 7.5cm Pak (mot.) Kompanie. PgR HG-2 was similar, except I Bataillon (gep) was active, II. Bataillon was noted as "lost" and the Regiments-Einheiten were the same, with 9. Kompanie having 6 15cm, 4. Kompanie 4 15cm, and 11. Kompanie (operational in this case) with 4 7.5cm.

Third, the Artillerie-Regiment HG consisted entirely of towed pieces. I. Abteilung had 9 10.5cm lFH, II. had 8 15cm sFH, III. had 6 15cm sFH and IV. had 12 10cm sFK. There were no Nebelwerfer as part of the unit, those at Salerno were part of NW-Regiment 72 and were attached to the division. The divisional Panzerwerfer Batterie was formed a little later IIRC.

Fourth, the PzAA HG was very different in composition. 1. Kompanie had 9 2cm PzSW, 2. was supposed to be PzSW as well, but was being reformed, 3. was an Infanterie Kp. (mot), 4. was the same, but was being reformed, 5. was an Infanterie Kp. (gpz), and 6., which was being disbanded, had been a Pak Kompanie (it still had 1 schweres Pak on 1 September).

Fifth, the Pionier Abteilung only had 2. and 3. Kompanie, along with a Brueko-K and a leichte Kolonne. 1. Kompanie was noted as "lost."

Finally, the division was reinforced by the attachment of PzGR 115, Bataillon Reggio and I/Flak-Rgt 49.

Panzer strength (as of 31 August) was:

Pz III(l) 26 on hand of which 13 in repair
Pz III(k) 3 on hand of which 3 in repair
Pz IV(l) 42 on hand of which 29 in repair
PzBefhl 4 on hand of which 2 in repair
StuH III 6 on hand of which 1 in repair
StuG III 16 on hand of which 3 in repair

Operational as of 9 September were:
14 Pz III(l)
1 Pz III(k)
23 Pz IV(l)
1 PzBefhl
47 StuG (it appears this includes attachments, possibly Pz.Abt. 129?)
So that should give you a good idea of HG Div strength.

My only query for Rich is that I've trawled through T78 T621 and not been able to see the report he referred to.

Rich, would it be possible for you to check those notes of yours?

Regards

Tom

User avatar
BFBSM
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jun 2017 08:12
Location: Australia

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by BFBSM » 09 Sep 2019 00:24

There are a few pages regarding Division "Hermann Göring" activites in Konstam's Salerno 1943: The Allied Invasion of Italy from Pen & Sword (ISBN: 9781844155170).

Mark

Richard Anderson
Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 01 Jan 2016 21:21
Location: Bremerton, Washington

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Richard Anderson » 09 Sep 2019 05:04

Tom from Cornwall wrote:
08 Sep 2019 19:54
Rich, would it be possible for you to check those notes of yours?
Sorry Tom, but those files are no longer accessible by me...a continent intervenes. If it wasn't in the GI Panzertruppen files, then it was most likely 10. Armee or LXXVI. Panzerkorps files that I found them in. The problem is the early entries covering the period of late August and September through AVALANCHE are fragmentary and scattered. IIRC, it took going through a lot of frames to find the info.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 09 Sep 2019 18:36

Rich,
No problem - I’ll just have do some more searching.
Regards
Tom

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 10 Sep 2019 20:53

Rich,

Phew; you were close - those strength reports are actually in T78 R616 - but without your hint I wouldn't have had a clue where to start, so many thanks.

Regards

Tom

Richard Anderson
Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 01 Jan 2016 21:21
Location: Bremerton, Washington

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Richard Anderson » 11 Sep 2019 01:02

Tom from Cornwall wrote:
10 Sep 2019 20:53
Rich,

Phew; you were close - those strength reports are actually in T78 R616 - but without your hint I wouldn't have had a clue where to start, so many thanks.

Regards

Tom

Glad you found them.

Cheers!
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 14 Sep 2019 20:10

Can anyone help with the symbols in this snip from the order of battle of HG Pz Div on 1.9.43:
HG Werfer - Sep 43.JPG
Is that 13 x 15cm Werfers, 1 x 21cm Werfer and 1 x Schwer Werfer plus 10 LMGs?

Is the thickness of the bar important?

Edited to add: 1/2 track prime mover for 15cm but what about others?

Regards

Tom
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Richard Anderson
Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 01 Jan 2016 21:21
Location: Bremerton, Washington

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Richard Anderson » 14 Sep 2019 22:04

I believe that is 13 15cm and 1 21cm Werfer with 1 schwere Panzerbuchse and 10 LMG. It is possible the motorized (not halftrack) prime mover symbol applied to the entire unit...or they may have been lacking one for the 21cm Werfer. I would tend to expect the former.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 15 Sep 2019 08:33

Hi Rich,

Thanks, that’s very useful.

I thought half-track prime mover because of this statement:
The two small circles ('wheels') underneath a symbols identified the unit as being motorized. In case these wheels were over the symbol (applied only to artillery-type units), this indicated that the unit was motorized by half-tracked prime movers
Regards

Tom

Richard Anderson
Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 01 Jan 2016 21:21
Location: Bremerton, Washington

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Richard Anderson » 15 Sep 2019 17:02

Tom from Cornwall wrote:
15 Sep 2019 08:33
Hi Rich,

Thanks, that’s very useful.

I thought half-track prime mover because of this statement:
The two small circles ('wheels') underneath a symbols identified the unit as being motorized. In case these wheels were over the symbol (applied only to artillery-type units), this indicated that the unit was motorized by half-tracked prime movers
Regards

Tom
http://www.niehorster.org/011_germany/s ... ls_43.html

BTW, by this point the "heavy antitank rifle" was probably the Ofenrohr or possibly the 8.8 cm Raketenwerfer 43 Puppchen.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 1843
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 15 Sep 2019 19:51

Thanks Rich,

that is the page that led me to suggest the half-track prime movers.

BTW
Richard Anderson wrote:
15 Sep 2019 17:02
Third, the Artillerie-Regiment HG consisted entirely of towed pieces. I. Abteilung had 9 10.5cm lFH, II. had 8 15cm sFH, III. had 6 15cm sFH and IV. had 12 10cm sFK. There were no Nebelwerfer as part of the unit, those at Salerno were part of NW-Regiment 72 and were attached to the division. The divisional Panzerwerfer Batterie was formed a little later IIRC.
The snip of the Werfer Battery was from the same source that you refer to above. Do you have another source that supports your statement about the lack of HG werfer at Salerno?

Edit to add: looking at the Oct Gliederung the Werfer Bty (No. 13) was still there, although the number of 15 cm weapons looks to be reduced to just 7.

Regards

Tom

User avatar
BFBSM
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 Jun 2017 08:12
Location: Australia

Re: Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno

Post by BFBSM » 20 Sep 2019 11:28

Mcohen wrote:
21 Apr 2019 15:31
I am looking for literature to read about the Panzer-Division "Hermann Göring" at Salerno, which, as I understand, largely was stationed on the Sorrento Peninsula. Preferably, I it would be best for the literature to be in English, but accounts in German or Italian would also be welcomed. There likely isn't anything that focuses on their role in the battle, but larger histories on the Division would be helpful.
You could also look at Battleground Italy 1943 - 1945:The German Armed Forces in the Battle for the Boot by Franz Kurowski (ISBN: 978-0921991779).

Mark

Return to “WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean”