BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

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ClintHardware
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by ClintHardware » 27 May 2018 05:06

Urmel wrote:What about the 16 Mk IVa that were issued to 2 R.T.R. 'unfit for action'?
That is relevant. I was referring to within unit maintenance. The accounts of issued unfit I am sure are correct. It was the units who judged them unfit on receipt using their own knowledge.
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by Urmel » 27 May 2018 05:55

Well then there's the bit about my sig...
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by ClintHardware » 28 May 2018 17:39

And are you asserting it reports incompetence within units ? Were they not doing all they could with what they had and if not where does it state that?
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by Urmel » 29 May 2018 00:14

I assign no motivation or reason.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by MarkN » 29 May 2018 18:50

Urmel wrote:I assign no motivation or reason.
Nothing at all??? Not even "salutary" as a direct 7 Armd Div quote? :lol:

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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by Urmel » 30 May 2018 00:16

I am a veritable example of agnosticism in this regard.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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ClintHardware
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by ClintHardware » 30 May 2018 05:06

Urmel wrote:I am a veritable example of agnosticism in this regard.
I hope you base that on evidence. :P :wink:
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by ClintHardware » 04 May 2019 06:58

Urmel wrote:
26 May 2018 23:45
What about the 16 Mk IVa that were issued to 2 R.T.R. 'unfit for action'?
Incompetence? Units receiving old or incomplete kit from others often exaggerated their state so that better kit or parts for them might arrive. Do you know how they were judged unfit?
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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by MarkN » 02 Jul 2019 14:21

ClintHardware wrote:
18 May 2018 07:47
Major-General O’Moore Creagh left what appears to be an unhurried and thorough analysis of BATTLEAXE that he finished writing in August 1941 from the perspective of the 4th and 7th Armd Bdes and 7th Sp Gp, even though the 4th Armd Bde had fought under 4th India Division.
He also left a 10 page set of notes upon which it appears that report was based. One intetesting excerpt:
It is an accepted principle in the employment of infantry tanks that they should remain on the objective no longer than is absolutely vital. After that they must rally to enable units to cary out maintenance, to reorganise, and to replenish ammunition, oil etc.

Owing to unforseen circumstances that principl was not adhered to after the capture of CAPUZZO. Many tanks were used as immobile pill-boxes. Had the tanks been able to rally earlier many more would have been recommissioned in good time for the fight next day. As a direct example of this 13 tanks which only required unit fitter attention had to be abandoned.

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Re: BATTLEAXE Major-General O’Moore Creagh 88s & Axis Positions

Post by ClintHardware » 15 Jul 2019 15:12

MarkN wrote:
02 Jul 2019 14:21
ClintHardware wrote:
18 May 2018 07:47
Major-General O’Moore Creagh left what appears to be an unhurried and thorough analysis of BATTLEAXE that he finished writing in August 1941 from the perspective of the 4th and 7th Armd Bdes and 7th Sp Gp, even though the 4th Armd Bde had fought under 4th India Division.
He also left a 10 page set of notes upon which it appears that report was based. One intetesting excerpt:
It is an accepted principle in the employment of infantry tanks that they should remain on the objective no longer than is absolutely vital. After that they must rally to enable units to cary out maintenance, to reorganise, and to replenish ammunition, oil etc.

Owing to unforseen circumstances that principl was not adhered to after the capture of CAPUZZO. Many tanks were used as immobile pill-boxes. Had the tanks been able to rally earlier many more would have been recommissioned in good time for the fight next day. As a direct example of this 13 tanks which only required unit fitter attention had to be abandoned.
Yes.
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BATTLEAXE: the most important battle yet undertaken

Post by MarkN » 11 Sep 2019 14:59

Just how quickly can expectations be dashed...

14 June 1941....
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17 June 1941....
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