Gazala OoB

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Urmel
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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Urmel » 19 Sep 2009 18:10

eduard wrote:Sorry, no.

I will check the mentioned book because it gives some details of the equipement of the different units at some dates. It surprises me that they were 75mm german light guns of the 18 series.

Maybe they were russian 76mm field howitzers. Some of them appear in use by the 361 artillery regiment.

Eduard
not directly relevant, I guess, but still.

The guns used by Afrika Artillerieabteilung 361 in November 41 were German 75mm mountain guns, one hopes of the 36 variant (a proper gun), not the 18 variant (mountain version of the IG18) or the 15 variant (obsolete Austrian model). See:
OOB of Africa Special Purpose Division
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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David W
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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by David W » 20 Sep 2009 00:33

The guns used by Afrika Artillerieabteilung 361 in November 41 were German 75mm mountain guns, one hopes of the 36 variant (a proper gun), not the 18 variant (mountain version of the IG18) or the 15 variant (obsolete Austrian model).
If you are refering to 364th Batterie (& I understand that you might not be) then they are 7.5cmGebK, according to my records.

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Urmel
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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Urmel » 20 Sep 2009 09:50

David W wrote:
The guns used by Afrika Artillerieabteilung 361 in November 41 were German 75mm mountain guns, one hopes of the 36 variant (a proper gun), not the 18 variant (mountain version of the IG18) or the 15 variant (obsolete Austrian model).
If you are refering to 364th Batterie (& I understand that you might not be) then they are 7.5cmGebK, according to my records.
I am referring to the Afrika-Abteilung 361, not a single battery.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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David W
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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by David W » 20 Sep 2009 10:29

I am referring to the , not a single battery.
Interesting! :)

This unit is an enigma to me. :?

I have seen it called.....
"Afrika-Abteilung 361" "Afrika Artillerie Abteilung" & "Leichte Artillerie Abteilung 361"
Then from the latter half of 1942; "II Artillerie Regiment 190". Which beggars the question What happened to I Artillerie Regiment 190?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting info about this unit. Perhaps we could start a new thread, if there is sufficient interest?

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Urmel
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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Urmel » 20 Sep 2009 22:15

The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by jwsleser » 21 Sep 2009 23:58

I just read through this thread and would like to offer some corrections to the information previously provided.

Italian tipo A.S. 42 organization. This reorganization applied to the motorized units (reparti motorizzata) as well as to the infantry units (reparti fanteria). Seconda offensiva britannica in Africa settentrionale e ripiegamento Italo-Tedesco nella Sirtica orientale allegato 31 (pages 240-241) provides the details of the divisione motorizzata tipo A.S. 42. Seconda controffensiva Italo-Tedesca in Africa settentrionale de El Agheila a El Alamien has the order implementing the changes and a recapitulation of Trieste under this organization (allegato 1, pages 287-291). The CAM OB in allegato 9 clearly indicates that Trieste was organized as a tipo A.S. 42 unit (pages 307-308). There is discussion in the text of these two volumes that provides the reasons and the methodology behind the new TO&E structures. Note the Trento is organized as a divisone fanteria tipo A.S. 42, recognizing that its trucks have been pulled for the LOC and it is, in fact, an infantry division.

Pista!

Jeff

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Urmel » 22 Sep 2009 22:57

Those are the old ones, not Montanari?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by eduard » 25 Sep 2009 09:14

Which type of russian guns of 76mm were used by the 361 art. abt. ??

Many thanks

Eduard

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by jwsleser » 29 Sep 2009 20:00

JBond

Sorry, I was very busy last week and reenacting this weekend. Trying to catch up on the boards.

Yes, these two volumes are from the series that Montanari series replaced. While Montanari is the better set, the earlier volumes offer details not found in his volumes. Montanari discusses these changes, but doesn’t go to the same level of detail. Both Seconda volumes provide the orders describing and ordering the changes.

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Urmel » 29 Sep 2009 21:21

Thanks!
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re:

Post by Urmel » 27 Feb 2013 07:08

RichTO90 wrote:4./772 is kind of mysterious. HKAB 772 was formed in July 1941 from s.Art.-Abtl. 912 with four batteries, but supposedly served in Russia. It doesn't appear to be in Africa by 15 April. By 20 July 1942 the designation doesn't even appear anymore in Africa and instead the third 17cm battery is designated as HKAB 362 with 3 17cm.
4./772 was sunk on the Duisburg/Beta convoy 8/9 November 41, and I don't see them being reformed and re-equipped and then sent over quickly enough to play a role in the Gazala battles.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Gazala OoB

Post by Freebird » 16 Mar 2020 18:52

Was the 9th Indian brigade detached from its parent division?

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