where can I find Axis maps of northafrica WWII ?

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 20 Aug 2006 21:05

Is there a site where to find topographic maps of Libya and Egypt with high resolution ?
thks

macavellian · Post by **macavellian** » 29 Sep 2006 11:23

I have a number of real afrika korps maps.
Contact me for futher details.

Karte · Post by **Karte** » 12 Oct 2006 14:44

The US Library of Congress and the US National Archives has a large collection of captured German maps. Most are 1:300,000, 1:250,000, and 1:50,000 scale. If you have a specific region or spot I will check and see if they have one over your area if you wish. I think making black and white copies is very inexpensive as well. I will look into how one orders them from overseas, or I could work something out with you as well.

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 12 Oct 2006 19:39

Karte wrote:The US Library of Congress and the US National Archives has a large collection of captured German maps. Most are 1:300,000, 1:250,000, and 1:50,000 scale. If you have a specific region or spot I will check and see if they have one over your area if you wish. I think making black and white copies is very inexpensive as well. I will look into how one orders them from overseas, or I could work something out with you as well.

Karte, very kind of you
I am interested in Tobruk - El-Adem and El-Alamein - Qattara areas. B&W copies are good as well as 1:50.000 and 1:250.000 scale
Your help will be really appreciated.

Custermen · Post by **Custermen** » 16 Oct 2006 23:52

The US Library of Congress and the US National Archives has a large collection of captured German maps. Most are 1:300,000, 1:250,000, and 1:50,000 scale. If you have a specific region or spot I will check and see if they have one over your area if you wish. I think making black and white copies is very inexpensive as well.

I recently made a trip to NARA at College Park, MD and it was a great experience. I copied several maps that were tucked away in various daily logs and intellegience reports.
One that I copied was very large and so I had to take it up to 2nd floor. I think it cost about $4 for it. Not bad, considering Kinko will charge about the same. Of course, if you write in a request for a copy, they may charge you double that to account for the labor to pull the maps out of files and copy and ship it.

The one I copied was an American map made by the 5th Army intellegience that showed the position of the German battalions that was in front of the US II Corps at the ARNO RIVER Line in August 1944. Pretty cool. I'm interested in any maps of the Italian Campaign. I am interested in US maps of Italy that have the coordinate system that relates to what was used in the daily logs. If anyone knows of any such maps that can be easily retrieved from NARA please let me know.

Steve

Example of a map from my collection:

Map of Bologna with identifier in upper RH corner: 87-II NW (a).
Scale: 1:12,500 Gride-lines and general elevations are super-imposed in black and white. Some details are quite visible, such as bomb craters and blown bridges.

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 17 Oct 2006 07:21

Hi Custermen
you showed a map of Bologna in WWII. I just live near this town and am interested into WWII italian history too (of Bologna and surroundings area). Have you a complete picture of that map ??

Custermen · Post by **Custermen** » 17 Oct 2006 10:54

No, I have not scanned the entire map. It is too large for my scanner. I have 6 maps like this that cover the area south of Bologna and Hiway 64 and area to the east of Hiway 64. Then I have a map that covers the area North of the view shown above but it is a standard 3-color printed map in 1:50,000 scale. That map is identified as Sheet 87-I entitled "Castel Maggiore".

The maps used by the US and its allies were identified and numbered from north to south. A map identified with just a Roman Numeral, such as Sheet 87, was a 1:100,000 scale map. This was further sub-divided into 4 sheets that were printed in 1:50,000 scale and identified as Sheet 87-II. Then they were further sub-divided further down until you had a very detailed map in 1:12,500 scale.
Here is a Legend from one of the maps that explain this.

These aerial photo maps are even further sub-divided into Sheets ending in (a), (b), (c) and (d). So, the one in previous message is identified as Sheet 87-II, N.W. (a).

The map coordinates used in all communications, such as after action reports or daily journals, would reference a 6-digit coordinate. This map coordinate was based on the numbers in the margins of these maps. You have to have the map to understand this as it had no relationship to the global lattitude/longitude system.
For example, the coordinates for the center of the stadium in the above photo map would be 86.2 - 48.2 ---but they usually dropped the decimal.

If you are interested, I could try to email you some scans of this map.
Steve

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 18 Oct 2006 05:48

Custermen wrote: If you are interested, I could try to email you some scans of this map.
Steve

Hi Steve
please check if you have shown in your map the area of the airport that is of my interest.
In the map here shown (Bologna today) the limits of your map are in the lower part and the airport area is in the upper left part
Tony

Custermen · Post by **Custermen** » 18 Oct 2006 11:26

Tony,
My aerial photo maps only cover south half of Bologna.
I have a standard black and white map (with blue & red for rivers and roads) that is entitled "CASTEL MAGGIORE" , Sheet 87-I. It is 1:50,000 scale. It includes a large blank area labeled as "Campo D'Aviazione" on the west side of Reno River and north of Hiway #9.

I see they have added a modern highway.

And is that a cemetery next to the Stadium? Odd. Do you know how old that Stadium is? It still exists today, right?

I have another 5 or 6 photo maps of Mantova and to the east. One shows a statdium but I went to Google Earth and didn't see it. Looks like it is a park now.

I can scan a portion of this map and email it to you.

Steve

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 18 Oct 2006 19:47

Hi Steve
the area you mention "Campo d'Aviazione" means Airport and is of my interest, if you can scan it.
Near the Stadium is the largest cemetery in Bologna (La Certosa) built in last XIX century on the site of an ancient necropolis by the Etruscans (IV century BC).
The stadium was built by Mussolini in 1927 who called it "Littoriale", after the war renamed "Dall'Ara", still in use but enlarged with modern structures.
The first allied troops entered in Bologna on 21st april 1945 and were troops of 20th Polish Corps, italians of Combat Groups, vanguards of 34th and 19th US ftr. div and partisans of "Majella" Group.
My small village near Bologna was entered on the same time by troops of 85th ftr and 10th mountain ftr US divisions. Nazis fled toward north and fascists dispersed.
Tony

Custermen · Post by **Custermen** » 19 Oct 2006 00:13

The first allied troops entered in Bologna on 21st april 1945 and were troops of 20th Polish Corps, italians of Combat Groups, vanguards of 34th and 19th US ftr. div and partisans of "Majella" Group.

Do you mean 91st Infantry Division?

Depending on which history book you read, you will get different answers as to Who was first in Bologna. I think the Allies wanted to give the Poles some recognition for their contribution. But I think the 34th Division was first.

My small village near Bologna was entered on the same time by troops of 85th ftr and 10th mountain ftr US divisions.

My father served in the 85th Infantry Division. What is your village? I will see if it is mentioned in Schultz's book on the 85th Division or in any After Action Reports that I have.

Drop me your email address and I will scan the map. As soon as I get over my head cold.

Steve

ourbill · Post by **ourbill** » 19 Dec 2006 23:03

Custermen wrote:No, I have not scanned the entire map. It is too large for my scanner. I have 6 maps like this that cover the area south of Bologna and Hiway 64 and area to the east of Hiway 64. Then I have a map that covers the area North of the view shown above but it is a standard 3-color printed map in 1:50,000 scale. That map is identified as Sheet 87-I entitled "Castel Maggiore".

The maps used by the US and its allies were identified and numbered from north to south. A map identified with just a Roman Numeral, such as Sheet 87, was a 1:100,000 scale map. This was further sub-divided into 4 sheets that were printed in 1:50,000 scale and identified as Sheet 87-II. Then they were further sub-divided further down until you had a very detailed map in 1:12,500 scale.
Here is a Legend from one of the maps that explain this.

These aerial photo maps are even further sub-divided into Sheets ending in (a), (b), (c) and (d). So, the one in previous message is identified as Sheet 87-II, N.W. (a).

The map coordinates used in all communications, such as after action reports or daily journals, would reference a 6-digit coordinate. This map coordinate was based on the numbers in the margins of these maps. You have to have the map to understand this as it had no relationship to the global lattitude/longitude system.
For example, the coordinates for the center of the stadium in the above photo map would be 86.2 - 48.2 ---but they usually dropped the decimal.

If you are interested, I could try to email you some scans of this map.
Steve

Are the British military map numbers the same as the American ones? I am looking for 1:50000 maps of Tunisia so I can locate areas/towns etc of a war diary. I have found it very difficult to get old maps of the right areas. I hope you can help.

Oasis · Post by **Oasis** » 20 Dec 2006 19:52

Sorry Ourbill
I haven't got any
Oasis