operation DIADEM

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scarecrow
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operation DIADEM

Post by scarecrow » 24 Sep 2006 12:01

Does anyone know the OOB for the 5th US Army and the 8th UK ARmy for operation DIADEM?

cédric :)

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Radar
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Cassino

Post by Radar » 06 Oct 2006 14:02

Hallo Scarecrow,
I couldn't find information tahat the 5th US Army took part in the operation diadem. I hope that this information will help a little.It's from the book"Cassino, the four battles" written by Ken Ford (ISBN 1861263953)

OPERATION 'DIADEM'
BRITISH EIGHTH ARMY Li Gen Sir Oliver Leese
BRITISH XIII CORPS Lt Gen. Sidney Kirkman
British 4th Infantry Division Maj Gen Dudley Ward
10 Infantry Brigade:
2nd Bn, Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment
2nd Bn, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry
1 /6th Bn, East Surrey Regiment 12 Infantry Brigade:
2nd Bn, Royal Fusiliers
6th Bn, Black Watch
1st Bn, Royal West Kent Regiment 28 Infantry Brigade:
2nd Bn, Somerset Light Infantry
2nd Bn, King's Regiment (Liverpool)
2/4th Bn, Hampshire Regiment
(MG, Mtr) 2nd Bn, Royal Northumberland Fusiliers from March 1944
22nd, 30th, 77th Field Regiments RA
British 78th Infantry Division
(from New Zealand II Corps, April 1944; see above
under CASSINO)
Indian 8th Infantry Division Maj Gen Dudley Russell 17 Indian Infantry Brigade:
1st Bn, Royal Fusiliers
1st Bn, 12th Frontier Force Rifles
1st Bn, 5th Gurkha Rifles
19 Indian Infantry Brigade: 1/5th Bn, Essex Regiment 3rd Bn, 8th Punjab Regiment
6th Bn, 13th Frontier Force Rifles
21 Indian Infantry Brigade:
5th Bn, Royal West Kent Regiment
1st Bn, 5th Mahratta Light Infantry
3rd Bn, 15th Punjab Regiment
(MG) 5th Bn, 5th Mahratta Light Infantry
3rd, 52nd, 53rd Field Regiments RA
British 6th Armoured Division Maj Gen Vivian Evelegh
26 Armoured Brigade:
16/5th Lancers
17/21st Lancers
2nd Lothian &. Border Horse 1 Guards Brigade:
3rd Bn, Grenadier Guards 2nd Bn, Coldstream Guards 3rd in, Welsh Guards
61 Infantry Brigade:
2nd in, Rifle Brigade
7th Bn, Rifle Brigade
10th Bn, Rifle Brigade
CANADIAN I CORPS Maj Gen E.Burns
Canadian 1st Infantry Division Maj Gen C. Vokes
1 Canadian Infantry Brigade: Royal Canadian Regiment
Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment
48th Highlanders of Canada
2 Canadian Infantry Brigade:
Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
Seaforth Highlanders of Canada Loyal Edmonton Regiment
3 Canadian Infantry Brigade:
Royal 22e Regiment
Carleton & York Regiment
West Nova Scotia Regiment (MG) Saskatoon Light Infantry
1st (RCHA), 2nd, 3rd Field Regiments RCA
Canadian 5th Armoured Division
Maj Gen B.Hoffineister
5 Canadian Armd Brigade:
2nd Armd Regiment (Lord Strathcona's Horse) 5th Armd Regiment (8th Princess Louise's New Brunswick Hussars)
9th Armd Regiment (British Columbia Dragoons) (Mot inf) Westminster Regiment
11 Canadian Infantry Brigade:
Perth Regiment
Cape Breton Highlanders
Irish Regiment of Canada
Royal Canadian Artillery
POLISH II CORPS Lt Gen Wladyslaw Anders
3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
Maj Gen Duch
1 Carpathian Rifle Brigade:
1st, 2nd, 3rd Carpathian Rifle Battalions
2 Carpathian Rifle Brigade:
4th, 5th, 6th Carpathian Rifle Battalions
(MG) 3rd Machine Gun Battalion 1st, 2nd, 3rd Artillery Regiments (recce) 12th Podolski Lancers
5th Kresowa Infantry Division Maj Gen Sul&
5 Wilenska Infantry Brigade:
13th, 14th, 15th Wilenska Rifle Battalions
6 Lwowska Infantry Brigade:
16th, 17th Lwowska Rifle Battalions (MG) 5th Machine Gun Battalion 4th, 5th, 6th Artillery Regiments (recce) 15th Poznan Lancers
Polish 2 Armoured Brigade:
Maj Gen Rakowski
4th Polish Armd Regiment `Skorpion'
1st Krechowiecki Lancers
6th Polish Armd Regiment `Dzieci Lwowskie'
ARMY RESERVE
South African 6th Armoured Division 11th SA Armoured Brigade:
Prince Alfred's Guard
Pretoria Regiment
Special Service Battalion
(Mot Inf) Imperial Light Horse/Kimberley Regiment 12th SA Motorised Infantry Brigade: 1st Royal Natal Carbineers
1st City/Cape Town Highlanders Witwatersrand Rifles/ De La Rey Regiment
1/6th, 4/22nd Field, 7/23rd Medium Regiments,
SA Artillery
British 24 Guards Brigade (from May 1944) see above under ANZIO

Radar

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Post by scarecrow » 06 Oct 2006 14:49

Thanks a lot Radar :D

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Post by stefan von ditner » 27 Oct 2006 23:11

Mr. Scarecrow:


5th U.S. Army did not participate in Operation Diadem. That formation fought its way north from the Anzio beachhead as part of Operation Buffalo. This offensive pushed north through the German 14th Army, commanded by General Von Mackensen.

The order of battle for 1st Canadian Infantry Division left out one very important unit, the 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards, the first Canadian regiment to breach the Hitler Line at Pontecorvo, prior to 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade capturing the town itself.

If you can find a copy, Lt. Colonel Nicholson's The Canadians In Italy you might find it interesting. 1st Canadian Corps also breached the "Gothic" Line with some success as well and was engaged with the troops of 1st Fallschirm Jager for a good bit of their time in Italy.

Regards

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Post by Kingfish » 27 Oct 2006 23:59

stefan von ditner wrote:Mr. Scarecrow:


5th U.S. Army did not participate in Operation Diadem. That formation fought its way north from the Anzio beachhead as part of Operation Buffalo. This offensive pushed north through the German 14th Army, commanded by General Von Mackensen.
Not so. At the launch of Op Diadem the US 5th Army was divided into 3 Corps, the US 6th Corp which was inside the Anzio perimeter, and the US 2nd and French Expeditionary Corp which were arrayed from the Gulf of Gaeta to the Liri river valley.

The latter two did participate in Op Diadem. In fact, the reason the operation was a success was because of the French, who pushed through the mountains south of Cassino to outflank the German line.

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Post by Custermen » 28 Oct 2006 02:54

5th U.S. Army did not participate in Operation Diadem.
I agree with Kingfish, who used a map from my website that is out of the book The Canadians In Italy.
Operation Diadem was the Allied offensive that began on 11 May 1944 and included both US 5th Army and British 8 Army.
Take note that the French Morrocan troops and the British 1st and 5th Infantry Divisions were under the command of the US 5th Army.

Steve

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Post by stefan von ditner » 28 Oct 2006 14:16

Gentlemen:

After some effort, I would have to agree with (both of) you.

Though the map you both refer to clearly shows 5th Army's two-pronged advance, the interesting fact is that the same publication (Nicholson's Can. In Italy) makes no reference to DIADEM by name (See index at back of book).

I was under the impression that DIADEM was the codename assigned to operation by 8th Army. I did, however, find a reference in Zuehlke's "Gothic Line" that refers to Gen. Alexander "requiring the force of both his armies" to launch the offensive in May.

I can't find anything to suggest 5th Army did, or did not, use the same codename for operation.

Though I am well aware that the French made said breakthrough, it was the Canadians who breached 1st as part of 8th Army....

I am still trying to find something on 5th Army's name for operation.

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Post by Custermen » 29 Oct 2006 19:47

I am still trying to find something on 5th Army's name for operation.
My main source is the US Army History series (aka. green books).
The volume entitled "Cassino to the Alps" begins the first paragraph with this statement:
"The Allied Armies in Itlay (AAI) with this preparatory fire had launcehd Operation DIADEM, a full-scale offensive that was destined to carry the U.S. Fifth and the British Eighth Armies from southern Italy to the Alps, where the Germans would at last lay down their arms."

The index of this volume has 17 pages or groups of pages listed under "Diadem". And this is a purely American history and thus a history of 5th Army. The primary author of this volume was Ernest Fisher who wrote a 5 volume(?) history of the 5th Army. Correction: it was Chester Starr who wrote the 9-volume history of the 5th Army.

For a British source, try John Strawson's "The Italian Campaign". On page 160, he lays out the goal of DIADEM as the destruction/capture of as many German military formations as possible. He describes it as General Alexander's plan, even though US General Clark had his own agenda. He points out that Gen Clark disobeyed orders when he launched his advance on Rome.

It is interesting that "Candians in Italy" doesn't even mention the word DIADEM. Page 399 has section header of "The Assault of the Gustav Line, 11 May", which agains describes Gen. Alexander's order dated 5 May as an assault against the German Tenth Army and the Fourteenth Army north of Rome.

I was trying to recall if the codename might have changed at some time. I know OVERLORD was renamed from the early planning stages. For the invasion of Southern France, there was ANVIL that later changed to DRAGOON. I can't find an alternate name of DIADEM.

Steve

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Post by Kingfish » 29 Oct 2006 23:06

Custerman,

Would you happen to have any info on the battles around Florence in late July / August '44?

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Post by Custermen » 30 Oct 2006 16:11

Would you happen to have any info on the battles around Florence in late July / August '44?
Check out my website. I have a 3-part history of the Pursuit to the Arno for that time period. This was copied from the US Army history series---most of 2 volumes. I added 2 maps to illustrate the advance along the 5th Army front.

Also, I visited the NARA archives in College Park, MD, this summer and copied a map that showed the positions of the German units(battalion size) just north of the ARNO RIVER Line. I plan to transfer that to a small map to add to my website.

Also, one AFTER THE BATTLE magazine had an article about the capture or Florence, if you want that kind of detail. I can get the issue number if you are interested.

Steve
http://www.custermen.com
http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/Histo ... ToArno.htm

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Post by scarecrow » 30 Oct 2006 19:14

Great site Custermen :D

cédric

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operation diadem re: U.S. 5th Army

Post by stefan von ditner » 30 Oct 2006 23:42

Custermen:


I have read John Strawson's book, rather recently in fact. I found some interesting criticisms of 8th Army strategy....

More to the point. Your assertion regarding the use of Diadem as code for said operation is clearly correct. It would appear that it originated at 15th Army Group HQ which would explain its use by both 8th and 5th Armies.

It is my privelege to converse with you: I have consulted your site a number of times while working on a book that combines the history of the Cdn. Army/the history of 4th PLDG, 1st Cdn Division's Reconnaissance Regiment and letters from a relative who was killed in action at the Naviglio Canal in 1945 while serving with latter regiment.

Your advice will prevent me perpetuating my early mistake as I cover "Gothic" Line battles.

If you find yourself curious about this regiment, I compiled the wikipedia site that covers history of 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards. They enjoyed a rather remarkable run before being stood down in the mid-60's.

Salute

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Post by Custermen » 31 Oct 2006 04:33

If you find yourself curious about this regiment, I compiled the wikipedia site that covers history of 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards.
Sure. I'm always interested in these units that were in Italy. I've been on the lookout for more good reference books for British and Canadian units. They are just hard to find.

I'm familiar with the 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards from reading Zuehlke's books. Also I have a collection of about 100 British cap badges and I have included a few of my favorite Canadian units; the 4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards, the Pricess Louise Fusiliers & the 48th Highlanders.

I enjoyed Stawson's book. I usually find most British authors to be a little too harsh on the Americans. I thought he was fair to both sides---of course it was written after ULTRA was de-classified.

Steve

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Post by Kingfish » 31 Oct 2006 12:23

Custermen wrote:
Would you happen to have any info on the battles around Florence in late July / August '44?
Check out my website. I have a 3-part history of the Pursuit to the Arno for that time period. This was copied from the US Army history series---most of 2 volumes. I added 2 maps to illustrate the advance along the 5th Army front.

Also, I visited the NARA archives in College Park, MD, this summer and copied a map that showed the positions of the German units(battalion size) just north of the ARNO RIVER Line. I plan to transfer that to a small map to add to my website.

Also, one AFTER THE BATTLE magazine had an article about the capture or Florence, if you want that kind of detail. I can get the issue number if you are interested.

Steve
http://www.custermen.com
http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/Histo ... ToArno.htm
Thanks. I am familiar with the After the battle magazine - issue #129 to be exact - and had used it as reference material no numerous occasions.

I'll keep an eye out for your Arno river line map. Does it cover the region near Florence, or only the 6th Army sector?

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Post by Custermen » 31 Oct 2006 13:56

I'll keep an eye out for your Arno river line map. Does it cover the region near Florence, or only the 6th Army sector?
Well, I haven't begun working on it. So it will be awhile.
The map covers the German units just north of the Arno River in the area of the US II Corps front. I'm not sure of the date but it is sometime in August. It does include the positions of the Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 504 and 508---Tiger Tank battalions.
I also have some intellegience maps that show the front line positions of the Allied units with notes on when they were releived.

Steve

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