Leros Operation Leopard
This is the first time I have posted a comment on this or any other website. I am prompted to do so by the recently submitted image with the title 'Brandenburgers at Leros'. All too often wartime images are wrongly captioned and the error is then repeated - as has occurred on this occasion. It is extremely doubtful if the photo was taken on Leros. Also, what reason is there to assume that these are Brandenburg Fallschirmjäger? Note the Luftwaffe eagle on the smock of the centre figure. This is most probably the Cassino sector in 1944.
Last edited by Tony R on 04 Dec 2007, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
Tony
Prosper Keating,who I take as an expert in this area,had this to say on the post where the photo came from:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ight=leros
I have also seen that photo attributed to Cassino,but appears not.
Peter
Prosper Keating,who I take as an expert in this area,had this to say on the post where the photo came from:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ight=leros
At first glance, these men could be Luftwaffe paras: the clue lies in the belt buckles.
I have also seen that photo attributed to Cassino,but appears not.
Peter
Because of the poor image quality I am unable to make out the belt buckles, only the Luftwaffe eagle (smocks, centre and right figures). The same image appears on page 108 of 'Hitler's Sky Warriors' (Christopher Ailsby) and is captioned as showing "men of the 1st Parachute Division ... at Monte Cassino." I stand to be corrected if someone can convince me that the image does in fact depict Brandenburger at Leros.
FJ belt buckles are discussed here:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=162824
I agree that the photo is of poor image quality and it should be challenged.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=162824
I agree that the photo is of poor image quality and it should be challenged.
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- George Harper
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Smock eagles
All German Paras, whether they be Luftwaffe, Heer or SS, wore jump smocks with the Luftwaffe breast eagle. Sometimes SS (and perhaps Heer) might remove them, but they were issued with the Luftwaffe eagle. Likewise if their jump helmet was issued with a decal applied, it would be a Luftwaffe one. Even some Kriegsmarine personnel wore jump helmets with Luftwaffe decals.
The exception would be pre-war and early-war when many members of the Heer Fallschirm Bataillon continued to wear their Heer breast eagles on their smocks even after the unit was absorbed into the Luftwaffe.
Hope this helps.
PS I wouldn't use Ailsby as a source as his book contains many errors and many of the photos are incorrectly captioned.
George.
The exception would be pre-war and early-war when many members of the Heer Fallschirm Bataillon continued to wear their Heer breast eagles on their smocks even after the unit was absorbed into the Luftwaffe.
Hope this helps.
PS I wouldn't use Ailsby as a source as his book contains many errors and many of the photos are incorrectly captioned.
George.
- Michael Emrys
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You are honestly saying that you cannot see if the buckle centers are round instead of oval? I do not even need my reading glasses to see these details in this image. George Harper is perfectly correct when he writes that parachute jump smocks were all made with the Luftwaffe breast eagle except for some very early smocks before the war, which were ordered by the OKH for the Army Parachute Battalion. Some M38 helmets were made with Heer decals in 1938 and there is a photograph taken in France in 1943 of a paratrooper wearing one of these Heer M38s. But the Brandenburg Fallschirmjaeger were issued with Luftwaffe parachutist clothing and equipment. So were the Waffen-SS paratroopers. Some men removed the LW eagles and some did not.
Tony R makes reference to 'Hitler's Sky Warriors' by Christopher Ailsby and says that this photograph appears on Page 108. I have just taken this book out from under the shorter leg of my desk, where it has been holding the desk up since I read it and saw many errors in the text and captions. The image does appear on Page 108 and the belt buckles are Heer pattern. There is another image in the book showing a group of Fallschirmjaeger in splinter pattern smocks with Heer breast eagles. These are probably from Fallschirmjaeger-Batallion "Brandenburg" and it is possible that some smocks were ordered by the OKH, which also ordered the reinstitution of the Army Paratrooper Badge. But the Heer eagles could also have been attached by the company tailor. Or by the men. There are two photographs of SS-Fallschirmjaeger who attached Waffen-SS sleeve eagles to their jump smocks.
The belt buckles are Heer, gentlemen. The photo was probably taken on Leros after the savage battle. It could also be Yugoslavia but is more certain to be Leros. They are probably paratroopers from the 15th Parachute Company who fought with I./Fallschirmjaeger-Regiment 2. Why would men of 1. FJD have Heer belt buckles?
Tony R makes reference to 'Hitler's Sky Warriors' by Christopher Ailsby and says that this photograph appears on Page 108. I have just taken this book out from under the shorter leg of my desk, where it has been holding the desk up since I read it and saw many errors in the text and captions. The image does appear on Page 108 and the belt buckles are Heer pattern. There is another image in the book showing a group of Fallschirmjaeger in splinter pattern smocks with Heer breast eagles. These are probably from Fallschirmjaeger-Batallion "Brandenburg" and it is possible that some smocks were ordered by the OKH, which also ordered the reinstitution of the Army Paratrooper Badge. But the Heer eagles could also have been attached by the company tailor. Or by the men. There are two photographs of SS-Fallschirmjaeger who attached Waffen-SS sleeve eagles to their jump smocks.
The belt buckles are Heer, gentlemen. The photo was probably taken on Leros after the savage battle. It could also be Yugoslavia but is more certain to be Leros. They are probably paratroopers from the 15th Parachute Company who fought with I./Fallschirmjaeger-Regiment 2. Why would men of 1. FJD have Heer belt buckles?
If anything the para it the middle appears to be wearing a Luftwaffe buckle,note the raised point in the middle which suggests the Eagle head.
Our perception of what is round is what is oval seems also to be determined by the camera angle.This photo from Jean-Yves Nasse's Green Devils!,although faint,has a more circular than oval shape,determined in my view by the left,offside position of the photographer.If taken straight ahead it would appear as its true shape,oval.
The member who raised this query is a creditable researcher and has raised doubts on the photo's authenicity as being firstly Brandenburgers,and secondly from Leros.Someone is right or wrong but as Michael stated a clearer photo,or a negative,would help in determining the issue.
Our perception of what is round is what is oval seems also to be determined by the camera angle.This photo from Jean-Yves Nasse's Green Devils!,although faint,has a more circular than oval shape,determined in my view by the left,offside position of the photographer.If taken straight ahead it would appear as its true shape,oval.
The member who raised this query is a creditable researcher and has raised doubts on the photo's authenicity as being firstly Brandenburgers,and secondly from Leros.Someone is right or wrong but as Michael stated a clearer photo,or a negative,would help in determining the issue.
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- Fallschirmjäger
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FJ
What type of name is Wandrey,just dose not sound too german, but then i dont know all the german names out there,so is it german?.And Nemesis666 these are FJ in leros right,but brandenburgers and luftwaffe FJ?.