Battle of Crete airfield question

[Simon K]

What is that box shape in the circled area?

[The_Enigma]

lol i cant resist.....

A box!

To be serious though; check out the A10 photos - its hull protruds into that area, the A13 had a simlar but much smaller feature like that and the A9 would look simlar to the A10 id believe if its turrets were removable. On the other hand it could be background?

[Peter H]

The author gives as his source for the photo Gem.Fallsch.Pz.Jäger-Abt.1.This is the Veterans Association of Fallsch.Pz.Jäger-Abt.1.

A substantial hill range can be seen here to the south of Hill 107 Maleme.Members of the Sturm-Regiment on summit of Hill 107.




Another photo from the series shows men of this anti-tank battalion posing with a British Gladiator.Note the same grassy expanse and a hill range in the distance.This photo was definitely taken at Crete.Some of the men are in British tropical kit.Morever when the division travelled through Greece (to Crete)it was ordered to keep its identity secret--no FJ uniforms,insignia,or even songs allowed.

[The_Enigma]

Those motorbikes were never on Crete!!!




Excellent pics again - look at the poor gladiator I was very surprised when i first learned that these things were frontline planes in Egypt and Greece during 1940/41 and also in Iraq during 41, one just expected for the overseas RAF to equipped as it was back home.

[phylo_roadking]

The Driver's box - here on a MkIV A13 hull



The MkIII A13 had the same box in the same place.

Whereas the A9 had THIS...



Turrets on either side of the driver's box and no glacis bit at the trackrun. As you can see the turrets are NOT there on the mysterious tank.

Peter - I have to say, having been there...that EVERY single flat bit of Crete has a range of hills in the background! Unless you're looking out to sea instead!

[Simon K]

It must be the box that they keep the A13s in eh?

[phylo_roadking]

That's an "Occupied" British Norton 16H 600cc.

[The_Enigma]

The Drivers box! I had wondered what they were for, i never realised there was some dudes head in them.

[phylo_roadking]

...and with the Cruisers' thin armour - he probably frequently left it there...

[Peter H]

Here's another recent tank controversy.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3#p1287383

Soviet BT tanks captured by the Japanese from the Chinese in Burma are shown.The only problem is that the Chinese state that none of these tanks entered Burma,due to their size,weight etc.

[The_Enigma]

Yea i bet!

Now this sort of quote shocked me:

In the meantime it was decided to produce a tank along the A.9 lines with heaviet armour to withstand the attack of A.P. bullets fired by the 0.50-inch caliver class of weapons.

-Jentz, p. 17

The MK IV:

Armour protection for the first production series was designed to be proof agaisnt 0.303 inch A.P. bullets.

-Jentz, p. 18

I.e. to be able to withstand machine gun bullets and thats it! Did they not think anything else was going to be getting shot at them ... they were packing weapons that could defeat their own armour i.e. the 2 pounder.

[Peter H]

This is the AWM photo of the second Matilda found on Crete in 1945.

Actually as captioned it had not been dumped,sitting by the roadside since 1941.It was used as a prime mover by the Germans.German accounts also mention it being used in the same role by them in the campaign of May/June 1941.

[phylo_roadking]

T-E, read Roy Farran's own account of events on Crete some time. The Vicker's Lights weren't even proof against NON-AP mg rounds!!! By the time he had to finally abandon his in Galatas, it was a collander

Plus, if you think about it..."0.5in A.P." is Boys AT rifle territory

Peter, IIRC the plain on the far side of the Tavronitis was a LOT more cultivated, even then, than in that pic. It does look more like some of the open-ground shots on the road back from Salonika.

Occam's Razor; we know in detail what tanks were on Crete, and what happened to them. We even know of the mechanical and mobility problems of a lot of them individually, buried away in the various accounts. Put that with the bleakness of that particular piece of landscape - and I'd have to go with a bad caption. It's certainly by no means the first.

[Simon K]

Always thought the matilda wheel layout was similar to Churchill marques.

There is a lot of similarity in certain areas to all 3 (4?) of the "suspects"

The only thing against the 13 is its distinctive, large wheels being absent from the pics. Could some of these vehicles have suffered from desert mods, as thats where they had last been used.

[The_Enigma]

The modifications the tanks went through i believe was in the area of sand filters, paints jobs, engine overhauls etc
Of course in the relam of armoured cars they did attach whatever they found, there is one photo of an armoured car iirc with an Italian AA gun mounted on it.

Although the Germans did go to work on there tanks chopping holes into the deck armour to help air flow, increasing fan speeds and bolting extra armour on to bring them up to the standards of the latest factory produced models.

T-E, read Roy Farran's own account of events on Crete some time. The Vicker's Lights weren't even proof against NON-AP mg rounds!!! By the time he had to finally abandon his in Galatas, it was a collander

Plus, if you think about it..."0.5in A.P." is Boys AT rifle territory

Ah yea true, i had forgot about AT rifles.

The funniest thing i read about the Vickers, now am sure it was this tank and prehaps a few others, was that they included boards of asbestos as heat/fireproofing so the crew wouldnt burn there poor skin on the metal. So a deathtrap in more than one sence of the word :p