Crusader OOB

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Urmel
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Urmel » 21 Feb 2017 21:09

4 S.A.A.C. was there at the start.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Tom Gale
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Tom Gale » 23 Feb 2017 11:14

I just found my copy of the 1st Dragoons 1938 - 45.

'A' Sqn was in armoured cars with the 11th Hussars as early as May 41 then they were joined by RHQ and 'C' Sqn but only 'C' was left in the desert with the 11th Hussars when the regiment moved to Syria. 'C' stayed until 24th September then rejoined the regiment in Egypt. Then the whole regiment joined 7th Armoured Division on the 4th December and by the 10th had taken over the patrolling of the KDG.

The 3rd SA Recce Battalion and the 4th SAAC Regiment were heavily involved in the screening and fighting in November according to the book Springboks in Armour. By the 2nd December the 4th SAAC needed to rest and refit and moved back except for 'C' Sqn which stayed with the 11th Hussars. The 3rd SA Recce Battalion remained too in the follow up to the Axis withdrawal too.

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tigre
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by tigre » 12 Sep 2017 23:36

Hello to all :D; a complement......................................

Op. Crusader.

Source: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JH6AnBMKLe0/T ... Gause.jpeg

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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valentine III
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by valentine III » 27 Feb 2018 12:03

Re- reading Agar-Hamilton Sidi Rezeg's book account of the 5th South African Brigade demise I've got surprissed that no carriers (universal or Bren) are mentioned. I think that if present they would have been mentioned: doing recce before the shock or counterattacking and providing time for the rest of the infantry to go, or simply being able to escape...
I've always assumed the carrier platoons were there and found some references on the net (from wargaming) but, I'm wrong? Did infantry battalions during Crusader have carrier platoons? Only some of them?



Many thanks

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Urmel
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Urmel » 16 Jun 2018 09:09

ISTR that the Germans mention destroyed or captured 'Karetten', so I would think some carriers would have been present during CRUSADER. Whether with 5 S.A. Brigade is another matter.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

MarkN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by MarkN » 18 Oct 2018 17:17

I've pulled this out of the section dealing with Flak units...
Urmel wrote:
13 Oct 2011 11:06
My thoughts are that the OOB I am looking at is somewhat further removed from reality than the last Transformers movie.
If you mean the 'orbat' in the first post of this thread, I couldn't agree more. Assuming it to be an attempt at an orbat for 18 September 1941, the placement of the German Flak units in Cyrenaica is as accurate as Hollywood movie. :roll:

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 22 Apr 2019 00:02

A friend of mine and I are playing GDW's 1978 game 'Operation Crusader', designed by Frank Chadwick. I have previously spotted errors in the game OB concerning missing German artillery units and today have spotted that the RECAM brigade excludes the 2 GGFF infantry battalions. I have therefore decided to try to reconcile the entire OB for both the Axis and the Allies. I'm starting with the Axis ground forces. I have read through this entire thread. I apologise in advance for not using the correct naming conventions for German and Italian units and weapons!

Here are 'Panzer Group' units in the game, with my comments in red text:

605 self-propelled anti-tank battalion with 3 companies equipped with Panzerjager II (27 x Panzerjager I) and a platoon equipped with Marder II (from the Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two the earliest Marders were converted in April 1942 so I don't believe this platoon had Marders, if it existed at all)
580 armoured car company
900 Pioneer battalion (2 companies)

Here are 'Army Quarter Master' units in the game. I have no information on these:
German - 534, 535, 536, 1/533, 2/533, 3/533, 4/533, 5/533, 6/533, 1/902, 2/902, 3/902, 4/902, 5/902, 6/902, 7/902, 8/902, 9/902, 10/902, 1/529, 2/529, 3/529, 4/529, 5/529, 6/529
Italian - 241/148, 242/148, 243/148, 244/148, 245/149, 246/149, 247/149, 248/149

Here are the 'Panzer Group Artillery' units in the game, with my comments in red text:
I/408 artillery battalion with 3 batteries (12 x 10cm K18)
II/115 artillery battalion with 3 batteries (9 x 21cm Mrs18)
I/18 flak battalion with 3 light and 2 heavy flak batteries (I believe this should be 3 heavy and 2 light batteries with a total of 24 x 2cm and 12 x 8.8cm)
I/33 flak battalion with 3 light and 2 heavy flak batteries (I believe this should be 3 heavy and 2 light batteries with a total of 24 x 2cm and 12 x 8.8cm)
612 flak battalion with 3 light batteries (36 x 2cm)
606 self-propelled flak battalion with 3 light batteries (36 x 2cm on SdKfz 10/4 and SdKfz 7/1 half tracks)
617 self-propelled flak battalion with 3 light batteries (I believe this is not a self-propelled battalion and at the time of Crusader only 2 batteries were present for a total of 24 x 2cm)
There are a significant number of missing units that I believe were present at the time of Crusader:
4/149 artillery battery (3 x 17cm K)
902 artillery battery (3 x 17cm K)
523 coastal artillery battalion (18 x 15.5cm K)
528 coastal artillery battalion (18 x 15.5cm K)
533 coastal artillery battalion (18 x 15.5cm K)
363 mountain artillery battery (3 x 7.5cm leGebH)
364 mountain artillery battery (3 x 7.5cm leGebH)
II/25 mixed flak battalion (5 batteries, 3 heavy and 2 light; with a total of 24 x 2cm and 12 x 8.8cm)


More to follow...

Thanks, Neil
Last edited by WAKEN on 22 Apr 2019 00:30, edited 1 time in total.

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 22 Apr 2019 00:27

Here are the Afrika Division units in the game, with my comments in red text:

I/155 infantry battalion
II/155 infantry battalion
III/155 infantry battalion
I/361 infantry battalion
II/361 infantry battalion
III/255 infantry battalion
III/347 infantry battalion
705 self-propelled infantry gun company
707 self-propelled infantry gun company
Oasis infantry companies: 2, 6, 10, 12, 13/300
1/613 flak battery (12 x 2cm)
2&3/613 mountain artillery batteries (earlier in this thread there is listed a 361 artillery battalion with 8 x 8 x 7.5cm leGebH in Afrika Division. This may be the 2 batteries in the game or they may be the 363 and 364 mountain artillery batteries that are also listed earlier in this thread)


more later...

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David W
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by David W » 22 Apr 2019 07:32

All you could want and more.......

https://rommelsriposte.com/


Kind regards,
David.

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 22 Apr 2019 08:43

All you could want and more.......

https://rommelsriposte.com/


Kind regards,
David.
Thanks David. I have used that site extensively but whilst it does have OB information in it they are not complete as far as I know.

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 22 Apr 2019 19:04

Here are the 15th Panzer Division units in the game, with my comments in red text:

I/8 panzer battalion, 4 companies equipped with Pz II, Pz IIIG, Pz IIIH and Pz IVE (21 x Pz II, 38 x Pz III, 10 x Pz IV)
II/8 panzer battalion, 4 companies equipped with Pz II, Pz IIIG, Pz IIIH and Pz IVF (21 x Pz II, 39 x Pz III, 11 x Pz IV)
I/115 infantry battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 58 x LMG, 9 x 60mm mortars (I think this is a typo and should be 50mm), 6 x 81mm mortars, 14 x HMG, 3 x 3.7cm PaK, 2 x 5cm PaK, 1 x 2cm PzB
II/115 infantry battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 58 x LMG, 9 x 60mm mortars (I think this is a typo and should be 50mm), 6 x 81mm mortars, 14 x HMG, 3 x 3.7cm PaK, 2 x 5cm PaK, 1 x 2cm PzB
115 infantry gun company (2 x 15cm sIG, 4 x 7.5cm leIG)
15/200 motorcycle infantry battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 56 x LMG, 14 x HMG, 9 x 60mm mortars (I think this is a typo and should be 50mm), 6 x 81mm mortars, 7 x 1.5cm PzB, 6 x 3.7cm PaK
2/200 machinegun battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 2 x LMG, 9 x 60mm mortars (I think this is a typo and should be 50mm), 6 x 81mm mortars, 36 x HMG, 5 x 3.7cm PaK, 3 x 5cm PaK, 9 x 1.5cm PzB
Earlier in this thread a pioneer company is listed as part of 15 Schutzen Brigade
I/33 artillery battalion (12 x 10cm leFH)
II/33 artillery battalion (12 x 10cm leFH)
III/33 self-propelled artillery battalion (this is wrong, the battalion had 8 x 15cm sFH and 4 x 10cm K, all towed)
33 panzer recce battalion, 4 companies: 2 with armoured cars, 1 with half-track infantry, 1 with heavy weapons (from earlier in this thread I believe there were only 3 companies: 1 with armoured cars, 1 with motorcycle infantry, 1 with heavy weapons)
33 anti-tank battalion, 3 companies with 5cm PaK (from earlier in this thread I believe there were only 2 companies, each with 9 x 5cm PaK)
33 pioneer battalion (3 companies)

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 22 Apr 2019 19:57

Here are the 21st Panzer Division units in the game, with my comments in red text:

I/5 panzer battalion, 4 companies equipped with Pz II, Pz IIIG, Pz IIIH and Pz IVE (17 x Pz II, 34 x Pz III, 8 x Pz IV)
II/5 panzer battalion, 4 companies equipped with Pz II, Pz IIIG, Pz IIIH and Pz IVF (18 x Pz II, 34 x Pz III, 9 x Pz IV)
I/104 infantry battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 58 x LMG, 15 x 81mm mortars, 6 x HMG, 3 x 3.7cm PaK, 10 x 5cm PaK, 1 x 2cm PzB
II/104 infantry battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 58 x LMG, 15 x 81mm mortars, 6 x HMG, 3 x 3.7cm PaK, 10 x 5cm PaK, 1 x 2cm PzB
8/104 machinegun battalion, game designers notes say equipment was 5 x LMG, 9 x 60mm mortars (I think this is a typo and should be 50mm), 6 x 81mm mortars, 36 x HMG, 14 x 5cm PaK, 9 x 1.5cm PzB
104 self-propelled infantry gun company (earlier in this thread it says 2 x 15cm sIG, 4 x 7.5cm leIG, presumably towed)
Earlier in this thread a pioneer company is listed as part of 104 Schutzen Regiment
I/155 artillery battalion (12 x 10cm leFH)
II/155 artillery battalion (12 x 10cm leFH)
III/155 self-propelled artillery battalion (this is wrong, the battalion had 8 x 15cm sFH and 4 x 10cm K, all towed)
3 panzer recce battalion, 4 companies: 2 with armoured cars, 1 with half-track infantry, 1 with heavy weapons (from earlier in this thread I believe there were only 3 companies: 1 with armoured cars, 1 with motorcycle infantry, 1 with heavy weapons. Earlier in this thread 6 x 25 pdrs are shown with this unit.)
39 anti-tank battalion, 3 companies with 5cm PaK (from earlier in this thread I believe there were only 2 companies, with a total of 15 x 5cm PaK)
200 pioneer battalion (3 companies)

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 23 Apr 2019 15:59

Here is 132nd Armoured Division Ariete in the game with my comments in red text:

132nd Tank Regiment (137 M13/40 tanks)
7/132 tank battalion with 3 companies of M13/40
8/132 tank battalion with 3 companies of M13/40
9/132 tank battalion with 3 companies of M13/40
146/132 light anti-aircraft company with 20/65

8th Bersaglieri Regiment
5/8 infantry battalion (from earlier in this thread: probably two rifle and one 47/32 c.c. compagnie)
12/8 infantry battalion (from earlier in this thread: probably two rifle and one 47/32 c.c. compagnie)
2/8 anti-tank battalion (I do not believe this existed)
8/8 heavy weapons battalions with 1 company each of light anti-aircraft, anti-tank, mortar and machinegun (from earlier in this thread this was 3/8: one compagnia each of machine-guns, 81mm mortars and 20/65 c.a.)

32nd Light Tank Regiment (52 L3 tankettes)
1/32 light tank battalion with 2 companies of L3
2/32 light tank battalion with 2 companies of L3

132nd Artillery Regiment
1/132 artillery battalion with 12 x 75/27
2/132 artillery battalion with 12 x 75/27
3/132 artillery battalion with 8 x 105/28 (I do not believe this existed from posts earlier in this thread)
9/3/132 light anti-aircraft company with 20/65 (see below. I believe there were 2 20/65 companies in the regiment but not 3)
10&11/4/132 heavy anti-aircraft companies with 90/53 (these do not appear earlier in this thread so I assume they didn’t exist)
12&13/4/132 light anti-aircraft companies with 20/65 (the names may be wrong but earlier in this thread there are 2 x 20/65 batteries in the artillery regiment)
From earlier in this thread 2 artillery battalions were attached:
8 x 75/27 (attached from 3º reggimento celere)
12 x 105/28 (attached from the 24º raggruppamento artiglieria di corpo di armata)


Divisional troops
32 engineer battalion
1&6 independent heavy anti-aircraft batteries with truck mounted 90/53 (earlier in this thread is this: Gruppo Milizia Artiglieria Marittima 3. (MILMART) (3 batterie of naval 102/35 truck-mounted c.a., serving with Ariete (one) and RECAM (two))
From earlier in this thread I believe additional units were:
Nucleo esplorante divisionale (one compagnia motociclisti with plotone AB 41 armoured cars)
Battaglione divisionale controcarro (one compagnia each of 47/32 c.c. and motociclisti)

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 24 Apr 2019 20:29

Found weapon details for the Afrika Division here: https://rommelsriposte.com/2009/08/15/o ... vember-41/

155th Rifle Regiment. Each battalion with: 54 LMG, 18 PzB, 12 81mm, 6 leIG, 8 HMG

3rd Battalion 255th Infantry Regiment: 54 LMG, 18 PzB, 8 HMG

3rd Battalion 347th Infantry Regiment: 45 LMG, 18 PzB, 12 81mm, 12 HMG

“Afrika” Regiment 361. Each battalion with: 54 LMG, 2 HMG

WAKEN
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Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 27 Apr 2019 16:48

Here is 55th Infantry Division Savona in the game with my comments in red text:

55 Engineer Battalion
55 Replacement Battalion (was in Naples according to Rommelsripsoste site)
4 x 75mm anti-aircraft gun companies: 8 (2 guns), 27 (6 guns), 503 (8 guns), 504 (8 guns) (according to Rommelsriposte site these were coastal defence guns of an unknown calibre)
255th anti-tank battalion with 8 3.7cm and 4 4.7cm anti-tank guns according to Rommelsriposte site

2nd Artillery Regiment (there are only a couple of entries for this regiment in previous posts in this thread however I found this article in Italian: http://www.qattara.it/Documents/Il_2.pdf. I can’t speak Italian so my translation may be wrong!

1/2 artillery battalion with 12 x 100/17 and 4 x 105/28 (105/28 battery formed in summer 41)
2/2 artillery battalion with 8 x 75/27 (12 x 75/27 as 6th battery was reformed in summer 41)
3/2 artillery battalion with 8 x 75/27
2 x 20/65 anti-aircraft gun companies each with 8 guns
The article also mentions 4 x 88mm flak guns in or near to Halfaya Pass

12th Artillery Regiment
1/12 artillery battalion with 12 x 100/17 (according to earlier posts in this thread 1 battery was still in Naples and the other 2 had been sunk)
2/12 artillery battalion with 12 x 105/28 (according to earlier posts in this thread 1 battery was still in Naples and the other 2 had 100/17 not 105/28)
3/12 artillery battalion with 14 x 75/27

15th Infantry Regiment (2/15 infantry battalion in Bardia)
Infantry Gun company with 4 x 65/17 (did not exist according to earlier posts in this thread)
Mortar company with 6 x 81mm
1/15 infantry battalion (36 x LMG, 18 x 45mm mortars, 8 x anti-tank rifles)
3/15 infantry battalion (36 x LMG, 18 x 45mm mortars, 8 x anti-tank rifles)

16th Infantry Regiment (3/16 infantry battalion in Bardia)
Infantry Gun company with 4 x 65/17 (5 guns according to earlier posts in this thread)
Mortar company with 6 x 81mm
1/16 infantry battalion (36 x LMG, 18 x 45mm mortars, 8 x anti-tank rifles)
2/16 infantry battalion (36 x LMG, 18 x 45mm mortars, 8 x anti-tank rifles)

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