Crusader OOB

Discussions on WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean. Hosted by Andy H
diciassette2000
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 20:05
Location: Switzerland

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by diciassette2000 » 02 Nov 2019 16:46

A small contribution ... if you can serve ....

Regia Aereonautica 19/11/1941
-5.a Squadra Aerea
--SETTORE EST
---8.o Stormo B.T. (Martuba with S.79 (13 efficient/25 on charge)
---13.o Stormo B.T. with:
----11.o Gruppo B.T. with: (all the Group 14 efficient/15 on charge)
-----1.a Squadriglia B.T. (Barce with BR20)
-----4.a Squadriglia B.T. (Barce with BR20)
----43.o Gruppo B.T. con: (all the Group 13 efficient/15 on charge)
-----3.a Squadriglia B.T. (Martuba with BR20)
-----5.a Squadriglia B.T. (Martuba with BR20)
---239.a Squadriglia B.a.T. (Derna with Ju87 (2 efficient/2 on charge)
---279.a Squadriglia Siluranti (Derna with S79 (4 efficient/5 on charge)
---19.a Squadriglia R.S.T. (Derna with S79 (4 efficient/11 on charge)
---20.o Gruppo C.T. con: (all the Group 27 efficient/36 on charge)
----351.a Squadriglia (Ain el Gazala with G50 (detached to 155.o Gruppo)
----352.a Squadriglia (Martuba with G50)
----353.a Squadriglia (Martuba with G50)
---155.o Gruppo C.T. with: (all the Group 20 efficient/24 on charge)
----351.a Squadriglia (Ain el Gazala with G50)
----378.a Squadriglia (Ain el Gazala with G50)
---153.o Gruppo C.T. with (all the Group19 efficient/36 on charge)
----372.a Squadriglia (Derna with Macchi200)
----373.a Squadriglia (Derna with Macchi200)
----374.a Squadriglia (Derna with Macchi200)
--- 376.a Squadriglia C.T. (Bir Hacheim with CR42 with 9 efficient/11 on charge)
---67.o Gruppo O.A. con: (all the Group 8 efficient/15 on charge)
----129.a Squadriglia O.A. (Ain el Gazala with Ro37b)
----132.a Squadriglia O.A. (Bir Hacheim with Ro37b)
--SETTORE CENTRALE
---244.a Squadriglia B.T. (Bengasi with S81 with 2 efficient/4 on charge)
---209.a Squadriglia B.a.T. (Bengasi with Ju87 (1 efficient/5 on charge)
---174.a Squadriglia R.S.T. (Berka with S79 (6 efficient/8 on charge)
---160.o Gruppo C.T. con: (all the Group with 38 efficient/43 on charge)
----393.a Squadriglia (Bengasi with CR42)
----394.a Squadriglia (Bengasi with CR42)
----360.a Squadriglia C.T./155.o gruppo (Bengasi with G50 with 6 efficient/11 on charge)
---2.o Gruppo A.P.C. (16.a and 23.a Squadriglia)(Berka with Ghibli with 3 efficient/4 on charge)
---15.o Gruppo O.A. With: (all the Group with 8 efficient/14 on charge)
----32.a Squadriglia O.A. (Agedabia with Ca311)
----125.a Squadriglia O.A. (Agedabia with Ca311)
---196.a Squadriglia Regia Marina (Bengasi with CZ501 with 4 efficient/8 on charge)
---145.o Gruppo T (part) (Bengasi with S81/S82 with ??? efficient/9 on charge)
---614.a Squadriglia Soccorso (a section) (Bengasi with CZ506 with 1 efficient/1 on charge)
--SETTORE OVEST
---98.o Gruppo B.T. con: (all the Group 3 efficient/8 on charge)
----240.a Squadriglia B.T. (Castel Benito with BR20)
----241.a Squadriglia B.T. (Castel Benito with BR20)
---236.a Squadriglia B.a.T. (Castel Benito with Ju87 (3 efficient/5 on charge)
---175.a Squadriglia R.S.T. (Castel Benito with S79 (3 efficient/4 on charge)
---3.o Gruppo C.T. with: (all the Group with 36 efficient/42 on charge)
note: A section detached to Misurata (6 on charge/3 efficient)
----153.a Squadriglia (Sorman with CR42)
----154.a Squadriglia (Sorman with CR42)
----155.a Squadriglia (Sorman with CR42)
---12.o Gruppo C.T. with: (all the Group 16 efficient/32 on charge)
----159.a Squadriglia (Castel Benito with G50)
----160.a Squadriglia (Castel Benito with G50)
---69.o Gruppo O.A. con: (all the Group 14 efficient/14 on charge)
----118.a Squadriglia O.A.(Zuara with Ca311)
----123.a Squadriglia O.A. (Zuara with Ca311)
---1.o Gruppo A.P.C. (27.a and 121.a squadriglia)(Mellaha with Ghibli with 9 efficient/17 on charge)
---103.a Squadriglia Sahariana (Misurata with S81 with 5 efficient/6 on charge)
---Aviosquadriglia Sahariana(Hon with Ghibli with 9 efficient/11 on charge)
---145.a Squadriglia Regia Marina (Pisida with CZ501 with 2 efficient/5 on charge)
---145.o Gruppo T with: (all the Group with 3 efficient/15 on charge)
----604.a Squadriglia (Castel Benito with S74/S75/S81/S82)
----610.a Squadriglia (Castel Benito with S74/S75/S81/S82)
---614.a Squadriglia Soccorso (Karamanly with CZ506 with 3 efficient/6 on charge)

OOB Sahara Libico (1/11/1941)
Comando del Sahara Libico
-Comando artiglieria (Hon)
-Comando Genio (Hon)
-Plotone comando Truppe Sahara (Hon)
-Settore di Hon-Brak
--Presidio di Hon
--Comando compagnia CCRR del Fezzan (Hon)
--Stazione CCRR (Hon)
--Posto fisso CCRR (Uaddam)
--37.o battaglione libico (Buerat el Hsum)
--56.a e 57.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione (Hon)
--Compagnia Sahariana (without trucks)(Hon)
--Compagnia Sahariana (without trucks)(Hon)
--Banda Orfella (Gruppo irregolare)(Hon-Uaddan)
--Banda Riah (Gruppo irregolare)(Socna)
--Reparto autonomo mitragliere da 20mm (Hon)
--Due sezioni mitragliere (Hon)
--838.a batteria da 77/28 (del 330. Regg GAF)(Hon)
--21.a compagnia controcarro da 47/32 Granatieri di Sardegna (dell’esercito)(Hon)
--Compagnia mista del genio (Hon)
--Presidio di Brak
--Tenenza CCRR (Brak)
--Stazione CCRR (Brak)
--Stazione CCRR (Berghin)
--Posto fisso CCRR (Edri)
--55.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione(Brak)
--828.a batteria da 77/28 (del 330.o regg. GAF)(Brak)
--un plotone della 2.a compagnia meharisti dello Sciati(Brak)
-Settore Ubari-Serdeles-Ghat
-Settore di Ubari
--Presidio di Ubari
--Stazione CCRR (Ubari)
--Stazione CCRR (Gaar Bend Beja)
--54.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione(Ubari)
--un plotone della 2.a compagnia meharisti dello Sciati(Ubari)
--Tenenza CCRR (Ghat)
--Stazione CCRR(Ghat)
--53.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione (Ghat)
--comando e due plotoni della 1.a compagnia meharisti del Fezzan(Ghat)
--Banda cammellata Tuaregh (Tim Alcun)
--un plotone della 1.a compagnia meharisti del Fezzan (Tim Alcun)
--un plotone della 1.a compagnia meharisti del Fezzan (Tenut Mellet)
--Presidio di Serdeles
--Stazione CCRR (Serdeles)
--52.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione (Serdeles)
-Settore di Murzuch
--Presidio di Murzuch
--Tenenza CCRR (Murzuch)
--Stazione CCRR (Murzuch)
--Stazione CCRR (Traghen)
--Stazione CCRR (Umm el Araneb)
--Stazione CCRR (Zuila)
--Stazione CCRR (Tegerhi)
--Stazione CCRR (Gatrun)
--Stazione CCRR (Sebha)
--Posto fisso CCRR (Uau el Kebir)
--Posto fisso CCRR (Gara di Sebha)
--829.a batteria da 77/28 (del 340.o regg. GAF)(Murzuch)
--49.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione (Murzuch)
--compagnia Sahariana di Murzuk (Murzuch)
--Comando e tre plotoni della 3.a compagnia meharisti della Ghibla(Fongul)
--plotone della 3.a compagnia meharisti della Ghibla (Tegerhi)
--Comando e due plotoni della 2.a compagnia meharisti dello Sciati (Sebha)
--Compagnia Sahariana (Umm el Araneb)
--48.a compagnia mitraglieri da posizione (Sebha)
--840.a batteria da 77/28 (del 340.o regg. GAF)
-Settore di Zella
--Presidio di Zella
--Stazione CCRR di Zella
--batteria libica da 75/77 su tre pezzi (Zella)
--4.a compagnia del 18.o battaglione libico (di rinforzo)(Zella)
--Nucleo cammellato CCRR (Tagrifet)

All the best
Maurizio

WAKEN
Member
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 Apr 2003 22:06
Location: UK

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 17 Jul 2020 15:58

I found some details of weapons in the war diary of 14 Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company. Again this is probably subject to change, and if it is recorded I'll let you know:

WO169/1289 – 14 Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company – 1941

22 October 1941 TOBRUK
Position and arms of Plns.
No.1 3 Vickers-Terni 37mm in dug in Tanks.
No.2 3 Bofors 37/40mm Portee.
No.3 3 Vickers 2-pdr.

I'll aim to get the other two Brigade AT Coys next time.

Cheers

Tom
Hi Tom, did you find the details for the AT Coys of the other 2 brigades (16 and 23)?

Cheers,

Neil

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Urmel » 17 Jul 2020 21:21

23 Bde had 16 guns. Type not known. This may help. There were many 47/32 captured guns in service in Tobruk.

https://rommelsriposte.com/2019/07/28/5980/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 2121
Joined: 01 May 2006 19:52
Location: UK

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 17 Jul 2020 21:23

Neil,

I could only find a war diary for 23 Bde AT coy (WO169/1301).

It states that it was formed from ATk platoons from D.L.I. and 4 Border Regt in Sept 41, on arrival in Tobruk a platoon from 1 Essex joined. At the end of that month the diary records an "extraordinary establishment of 16 guns" instead of normal 9.

Regards

Tom

WAKEN
Member
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 Apr 2003 22:06
Location: UK

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 17 Jul 2020 23:52

thanks very much guys

WAKEN
Member
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 Apr 2003 22:06
Location: UK

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 12 Sep 2020 10:28

The Corpo d' Armata di' Manovra had this corps level unit: battaglione genio autoportato G
I assume that's a motorised engineer battalion. Does the 'G' signify that it was a Guastatori battalion, (XXI Corps had XXXI battaglione guastatori (four compagnie assault engineers)?

diciassette2000
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 20:05
Location: Switzerland

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by diciassette2000 » 12 Sep 2020 14:31

The CAM on the eve of Crusader was in charge of a company of the 31st sappers battalion (of the genius)...not a battalion.....
All the best
Maurizio

WAKEN
Member
Posts: 334
Joined: 14 Apr 2003 22:06
Location: UK

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by WAKEN » 13 Sep 2020 09:30

Thanks Maurizio. So XXXI battaglione guastatori had 3 companies with XXI Corps and 1 with CAM.

Regards

Neil

diciassette2000
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 20:05
Location: Switzerland

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by diciassette2000 » 13 Sep 2020 12:15

Yes.....
All the best
Maurizio

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Urmel » 13 Sep 2020 20:59

History of the battalion says all four companies were with XXI C.A.. 2 and 7 with Bologna and 1 and 8 with Pavia. Given that they planned the assault on Tobruk this would make sense. https://rommelsriposte.com/2016/01/24/x ... -crusader/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

diciassette2000
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 20:05
Location: Switzerland

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by diciassette2000 » 14 Sep 2020 09:48

In fact, from a coeval Italian report it would appear that the situation of the departments of the sappers genius at the time of Crusader was the following:
XXI Corpo d’Armata
Divisione “Pavia”
XXXI Battaglione Guastatori (Tobruk)
1° Compagnia Guastatori "Giaguaro"
8° Compagnia Guastatori "Leone"
Divisione “Bologna”
XXXI Battaglione Guastatori (Tobruk)
2° Compagnia Guastatori "Lupo"
7° Compagnia Guastatori "Tigre"
XXI Corpo d’Armata
1° Raggruppamento Speciale Genio
Divisione “Bologna”
XXXII Battaglione Guastatori
3° Compagnia Guastatori "Folgore"
4° Compagnia Guastatori "Uragano"
It is also true that in another Italian document of the time a provisional company of the genius attached to the RECAM is reported ... it is certainly not a clear matter
However good Urmel .....
All the best
Maurizio

diciassette2000
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Aug 2003 20:05
Location: Switzerland

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by diciassette2000 » 14 Sep 2020 13:21

An explanation could be that the document that provides for a sappers company in the RECAM staff which was then the CAM regiment at the time of Crusader refers to the staff PLANNED for the unit by the Supreme Command. However, as is well known, this planned composition was never officially recognized, nor was the entire unit recognized, which therefore remained at a provisional level. Specifically, then the same was hastily put on the field not respecting that composition in fact and so he never had his company sappers. This evidence would also emerge from the diary of the unit which as of November 9, 1941 in its composition does not mention any unit of genius in its ranks ....
all the best
maurizio

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4243
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: Crusader OOB

Post by Urmel » 15 Sep 2020 09:51

Thanks for this Maurizio!
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Return to “WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean”