StuGs in North Africa?

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schrisbpd
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StuGs in North Africa?

Post by schrisbpd » 12 Feb 2013 05:38

I've watched a lot of the German news reels showing the DAK and others showing the Brits and Americans and i dont recall seeing any StuGs? Were any there???

Orwell1984
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Orwell1984 » 12 Feb 2013 06:09

http://stugiii.com/theaters/northafrika.html
Here's some information on the small number of StuG III that served in North Africa.

schrisbpd
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by schrisbpd » 12 Feb 2013 06:33

Orwell1984 wrote:http://stugiii.com/theaters/northafrika.html
Here's some information on the small number of StuG III that served in North Africa.

Wow...only a few went over to africa!? Very interesting!!

Thanks for the reply!
Chris

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Urmel
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Urmel » 12 Feb 2013 07:32

schrisbpd wrote:
Orwell1984 wrote:http://stugiii.com/theaters/northafrika.html
Here's some information on the small number of StuG III that served in North Africa.
Wow...only a few went over to africa!? Very interesting!!

Thanks for the reply!
Chris
While the number of StuGs is correct, the remainder of the story contains some factual errors about S.V.288
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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askropp
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by askropp » 10 Apr 2018 16:05

I would assume that Tunisia is also in North Africa, so there were more than only the three guns of SV 288. I believe they were in 1. / StuGAbt 242 and Div "HG", but I'm not a tank expert.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Sheldrake » 10 Apr 2018 17:52

I think the StuG was a matter of intra Wehrmacht politics. There was a debate about whether a proportion of tanks should be assigned to support the infantry as in the British French and US Armies or all tanks concentrated in the panzer formations. That debate was won by the Panzertruppen. The turretless StuG, manned by the artillery was employed in similar roles to the infantry tanks /independent tank battalions in other armies. 5. Panzer-Armee was almost entirely panzer troops and didn't need StuG

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Attrition
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Attrition » 11 Apr 2018 15:54

Economics must have been involved, considering the efficiency of adapting obsolete tank designs to do something that got more necessary as the military situation deteriorated. A mobile, armoured, anti-tank gun must have realised an economy of effectiveness.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Dili » 11 Apr 2018 16:31

The StuG low profile might have helped in Africa. The reason that they were not send to Africa is that the StuG with long gun only appeared by late 42 and 43.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Contender » 24 Jun 2018 14:42

Attrition wrote:adapting obsolete tank designs
The Stug III was developed side by side with the Panzer III design it was not an "adaptation" due to obsolescence.

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Urmel
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Urmel » 24 Jun 2018 15:21

Attrition wrote:Economics must have been involved, considering the efficiency of adapting obsolete tank designs to do something that got more necessary as the military situation deteriorated. A mobile, armoured, anti-tank gun must have realised an economy of effectiveness.
Armoured mobile AT guns make more sense than unarmoured immobile AT guns.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Attrition
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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Attrition » 24 Jun 2018 17:25

[quote="Contender"][quote="Attrition"]adapting obsolete tank designs[/quote]
The Stug III was developed side by side with the Panzer III design it was not an "adaptation" due to obsolescence.[/quote]

Fair point but not so much as an anti-tank gun, the originals were short-barrelled.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Paul Lakowski » 24 Jun 2018 18:55

I recall reading that the concept of mobile gun to support infantry was part of doctrine during/after WW-I . The basic idea then was to produce Infantry Guns & PaK that could be pushed forward by gun crews as the infantry advance. In the late 1920s several hundred farm tractors were employed to mount theses IG-77mm & 37mm PaK to give the Regiments some mobile firepower. I do believe they where referred to as 'mechanized guns'. Early versions of the Panzer-I developments also had such guns trialed as did early versions of SPW development with larger PaK 75L40 guns trialed.

Under Defence minister Groner's guidelines in 1928 a military C-IN-C Wehrmacht was to be established to orchestrate ALL WEHRMACHT MILITARY PRODUCTION towards a common strategy, to avoid any duplication of effort across the service branches. Under Hitler's rule this position was ignored and Hitler ruled by setting each service Branch against the other. So intra service rivalry became political and entrenched.

Under Groner's rules/guidelines any cast offs from a progressive tank development programme [Pz-I to Pz-II to Pz-III to Pz-IV] COULD have been used to fill this Infantry/Artillery support role and still not restrict the tank development programme.

I can see a couple thousand Panzer I chassis being converted -in the late 1930s - to self propelled guns to fill this role [mounting 37mm PaK or 75mm Inf Gun]. Panzer I production could continue in such a model until after war begins , after which focus would likely shift to Panzer II chassis development.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Rick1701 » 15 Sep 2018 21:32

For years, friends and I have had the usual argument over StuGs in North Africa, ‘yes they were there/no they were not’. The last I read was that several were shipped, one fell in the dock during loading, which left something like 5 or 6 left. These were early -sh models StuGIII D.
When table top gaming we like to be accurate, so much to my surprise I finally saw photo evidence, while watching an episode of the Thames TV series ‘world at war’ episode 8 ‘The desert’ ....there slap bang in the middle of the tv screen at 49’48” is a StuG IIID abandoned (no visible damage) next to a knocked out panzer, in the desert , with British vehicles moving past.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by Brad Hunter » 23 Oct 2018 04:59

As of 05/26/42, the 5. Panzerjäger-Kompanie of the 288. Sonderverband had assigned 6 x 3.7cm Pak36, 3 x 5cm Pak38, 9 x 2-lbr. antitank guns, and one zug of 3 x StuG IIIds. The StuGs were detached to Kampfgruppe “Hecker,” and later took part in the capture of Bir Hacheim.

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Re: StuGs in North Africa?

Post by gracie4241 » 06 Jun 2019 20:06

As a correction I believe the long barreled 75mm gun was produced starting in March 1942, because there were some available for the start of Operation Blau

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