British AA Forces during Op Crusader

[nmao]

Hello.

Not directly related to Crusader, but there's a lot of good info in this document "Air Historical Branch (1), Air Ministry, RAF Narrative: The Middle East Campaign Volume 1: Operations in Libya and the Western Desert September 1939 to June 1941"
http://www.airpowerstudies.co.uk/AHB%20 ... ol%201.pdf
it includes some interesting numbers on AA guns in pages 32 and 33 during 1939 and 1940, etc...

Other Studies:
http://www.airpowerstudies.co.uk/historicalsources.htm


regards,

-Nuno

[David W]

Great work guys.

I've only just stumbled across this topic, courtesy of a hint by Tom.

[David W]

Just a few questions....

Which Regiments do the batteries listed above belong to please....

274th Light
81st Light
200th Heavy.

Thanks.

[Urmel]

The links are dead?

[Sheldrake]

Just a few questions....

Which Regiments do the batteries listed above belong to please....
274th Light
81st Light
200th Heavy.

Thanks.

274th Light - 2 Light AA Regt http://ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/laa/page2.html 2 Light AA were part of 13 Corps (Farndale p269 and 283)
81st Light - 25 Light AA Regt in 1939 See here http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/25laaHist.php 25Light AA part of 12 AA Bde (Farndale p 269 and 283)
200th Heavy. - 68 (N Midland) Heavy AA Regiment RA(TA) http://ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/haa/page31.html AA Bde Tobruk (Farndale p268 )

Farndale = years of defeat.

[MarkN]

Returning to Tom's earlier posts of 3 years ago, there seems to have been a significant uplift in AA guns between April and November.

The April 1941 orbat I have indicates significantly less equipment than those listed above.

[David W]

I think that a little of that may have been the replacing of 3" by 3.7". But even that I'm not sure, as it's difficult to pin down the actual numbers of 3" in Egypt at any given time.

[MarkN]

The late April 1941 orbat indicates no 3" guns at all and lists 110 3.7" guns (64 mobile and 36 static) of which 24 were located in Tobruk.

But beware, the orbat relates to Cyrenaica and Egypt only. What was held in other areas of ME command is not presented.

[David W]

Thanks Mark.

That's a useful snapshot.

I'll see if I can work out who had what.

Kind Regards,
David.

[David W]

Here's what I've got, and it's up for debate....

9th H.A.A Regiment: 24, 25 & 26 Btys; 8x 3.7" guns each. Probably static at Alexandria.

51st H.A.A Regiment: 152, 153 & 235 Btys; 8x 3.7" guns each. At Tobruk. Mobile?

74th H.A.A Regiment: 230, 231 & 232 Btys; 8x 3.7" guns each. Location unknown, presumably mobile.

68th H.A.A Regiment: (Depending upon when in April Mark's snapshot is as I have them arriving at Port Said on the 22nd, with) 200, 276 & 277 Btys; 8x 3.7" guns each. Presumably mobile.

89th H.A.A Regiment: (Again depending upon when in April Mark's snapshot is, as I have) 234 Bty; 8x 3.7" guns departing for Crete in April. Also, 205 Bty; 8x 3.7" guns joins the Regiment in April.


So in summary, I have 24 Static guns, and am missing 12.

I have I think, 48 mobile guns of which 24 are in Tobruk, so I am missing 16. But I have a possible 24 with the 68th Regiment, which seems unlikely unless there is a mix of mobile & static. And a possible 0, 8 or 16 with the 89th Regiment.

Some confirmation/clarification needed!

Thanks,
David.

[Dili]

British batteries had 8 guns?

[David W]

I always assumed that a full strength Regiment was 24 guns, and most Regiments appear to have three batteries. So that was the maths. But I could be wrong on either count I suppose.

[MarkN]

Here's what I've got, and it's up for debate....

I suggest you take some time reviewing all the threads you created over on ww2talk three years ago (Jan-Mar 2013). I think you created a unique thread for every HAA and LAA regiment sent to the Middle East asking for their movement and composition history. It would be such a waste of dryan67's time and effort if you now choose to ignore all his work.

On the subject of 3" guns, I have an ME Command equipment holdings statement dated 11 August 1940. It notes a total of 54 3" guns "with units" as follows:
32 with the Egyptian Army,
8 with the South Africans in East Africa,
8 with the British in Egypt,
4 with the British (HK&SA) in Aden, and
2 with the British (HK&SA) in Berbera, Somaliland.

In effect, in Egypt, just one British HAA battery held the 3" gun, the others all had the 3.7".

Tom's post earlier in this thread relating to 17 November 1941 shows 36 with the Egyptian Army and 4 naval 3" guns in Syria/Palestine. Don't forget 16 were sent to, used by 'A' and 'C' HAA batteries (and lost) in Crete in April-May 1941.

[David W]

Mark.

Most of the information that allowed me to come up with those units was as a direct result of DRyan67's work, so far from ignoring it, I have used it. I used the term "up for debate", as I wasn't sure that the numbers were 100% accurate, and they would not have been DRyan67's work, but more like my own, I don't like posting information as "fact" only to have it corrected. I would much rather suggest that some thing may be correct, and generate a healthy debate.

Your detailed information regarding the 3" guns is gratefully received.
I don't suppose that you know which British HAA battery it was that had the 3" guns?

Kind Regards,
David.

[David W]

I thought that I could work it out, but I can't.