Oh yes!!!!Brevity wrote: So, we don't know the initial number of Cruisers in Tobruk, delivery info by Jentz seems incomplete, and some Cruisers were shipped out.
This will be a hard one to solve. Anyone has more info?
And it seems those 6 cruisers due to be evacuated were not, and were ultimately repaired in Tobruk and put to use.
However, please understand that the total number of cruisers in Tobruk were not all survivors of 2nd Armoured Division. This is key to understanding the numbers...
Start of any research has to be the official history/ies. The British OH is devoid of any information on this point. No surprise there! The Australian OH, on the otherhand, appears to provide us with everything on a plate...
And in respect of 5RTR, it says...
To summarise, the AusOH suggest 26 cruisers were already in Tobruk under repair, 2 made it back from the desert and 11 arrived with 1RTR. Thus, after 1RTR's arrival, a grand total of 39 should exist - in varying states of serviceabilty and utter disrepair.
However, when you delve through the files held at Kew, a slightly different set of numbers comes out. But not that different.
After the (abject) failure of 2nd Armoured Division, Churchill demanded weekly updates on the tank state in the ME. The numbers put before him were often contradictory and on more than one occasion he was compelled to question the data. Given the attidude and information gathering efforts of staff officers in Cairo (despite them being pre-war professional officers), it is hardly a surprise that the numbers frequently didn't make sense.
Here are a selection of returns that highlight certain changes to the tank state in Tobruk and the poor efforts in Cairo.
18 April 1941
MarkNote1: the total was 21, 4 have been lost (see Brevity's notes above) leaving 17. This numbers represent the 11 arriving with 1RTR (A9/10, A10/1) and the first 6 A13s out of workshops.
MarkNote2: The 4 lost were all A9s of 1RTR
17 May 1941
MarkNote3: Sorry for the quality. I think I sneezed as I took the photo.
MarkNote4: Now there are 24 shown in Tobruk of which the note to the right states 7 are in workshops. This fits perfectly when you consider 17 (see previous) plus 7 equals 24.
MarkNote5: Despite what seems to be symetrically perfect, it ignores the fact that an A10 was lost in the battle of 1 May!!!!
15 June 1941
MarkNote6: Now we have 30 showing in Tobruk. And, the footnote reads...
MarkNote7: A nice dovetail with Brevity's postings above. However,...
12 July 1941
MarkNote8: This number (30) repeats until the beginning of August (from 15 June) when it drops to 28. 28 is the number which is recorded from then until the beginning of December.
MarkNote9: I suggest this is evidence that those 6 awaiting evacuation never left and (some) were fixed in situ.
And finally, to help us understand a bit more detail as to where all these cruisers came from, we have an entry in 1RTR WD
MarkNote10: On the day I went 2 skool, we woz lucki 2 do sum maths, so I lernt to do sums. Grand total recorded: 28 A9/6, A10/9 and A13/13.
MarkNalysis1: 6 A9s remaining ties in with the 10 arriving with 1RTR less the 4 lost in the early battles.
MarkNalysis2: The 9 A10s remaining indicate that 7ArmdDiv left some behind in February and March. How many? From known serials operating in Tobruk and careful scrutiny of 5RTR WD and others, it seems just a single A10 was CS version of 5RTR. (This contradicts my earlier analysis of few months past where I suggested it could be as many as 4). Thus, and don't forget the A10 burned out on 1 May, suggests 9 of the cruisers in Tobruk were A10s ex 7ArmdDiv.
MarkNalysis3: All the A13s seem to be ex 2ArmdDiv: 7ArmdDivHQ, 3ArmdBdeHQ and 5RTR.
MarkNalysis4: MarkNalysis1-3 show a total 'start figure' of at least 33 (A9/10, A10/10 and A13/13) of which 14 appear to be ex 2ArmdDiv (A10/1 and A13/13). However, this is shy of the AusOH total by 6. It is also shy by 2 of the 35 suggested in the returns I've posted above. Remember, there is good indication that 30 remained after at least 5 had been lost! This suggests at least 2 cruisers, of unknown type, were also lurking in Tobruk - probably never used due to state of disrepair. Were they additional A10s left behind by 7ArmdDiv or a couple of A13s from 2ArmdDiv with completely broken engines. Or were there 6 as suggested by the AusOH? It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that there were indeed 6, not 2, unknown cruisers lurking in Tobruk and not accounted for by my appreciation above.
And finally, my take on the 'definitive' reconcilliation sent by AFV Cairo to London Stats...
The total crusiers assumed to be in Cyrenaica (64) is the total establishment of 2ArmdDiv (A10CS/6 + A13/58). I have goodish evidence that at least 1 remained in Egypt and never made it forward. However, the 19 seems to be a simple, lazily simplistic, calculation of the 30 tanks then assumed to be in Tobruk (check the dates) less the 11 sent with 1RTR.