Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

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ClintHardware
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Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by ClintHardware » 24 Oct 2014 10:51

Hi All

Looking at Jentz there seems to be small gaps in his OOB list for this regiment from TCinNA.

He does not mention a Regimentstab but he does mention Stabs-Kompanie under each Abteilung.

Can anyone explain the OOB of a panzer regiment's: a) Regimentsstab, b) Regimentsstab-Kompanie, c) Abteilungsstab and d) Abteilungsstab-Kompanie. Several of a) - d) might not have existed or perhaps they are varying ways of describing the same element, or perhaps I have the terminology wrong.
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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 07 Nov 2014 16:40

In March 1942, the 8th Panzer Regiment consisted of the regimental component, and battalion components.

Regimental component consisted of four elements, (each with its own KStN), attached to the Panzer regiment's headquarters:
  • Headquarters, Tank Regiment
  • Signal Platoon, Tank Regiment
  • Light Tank Platoon
  • Motorized Tank Maintenance Company, Tank Regiment

Each of the two Panzer battalions had these elements, (again, each with its own KStN):
  • Headquarters, Tank Battalion
  • Headquarters Company, Tank Battalion
  • Light Column, Tank Battalion
  • 2×Light Tank Companies
  • 1×Medium Tank Company

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 08 Nov 2014 23:26

5th Panzer Regiment in March 1941, (see post above).
Basically, the 5th Panzer Regiment was organized the same as the 8th Panzer Regiment. However, the regiment and the battalion headquarters each had an additional light tank platoon equipped with Pz-I (Sd.Kfz. 101). And, there was only one light column, tank battalion. It was assigned directly to the regiment.

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by ClintHardware » 09 Nov 2014 04:52

Thanks Leo, but do we know about March 1941 - the period that Jentz was referring to?

Also can you please confirm the original German for each of the above unit elements you have listed.
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 09 Nov 2014 10:01

KStN 1103 • Headquarters, Tank Regiment — Stab eines Panzerregiments
KStN 1194 • Motorized Signal Platoon, Tank Regiment — Nachrichtenzug (mot) des Stabes eines Panzerregiments
KStN 1168 • Light Tank Platoon — Leichter Panzerzug
KStN 1187 • Tank Maintenance Company, Tank Regiment — Panzerwerkstattkompanie (für ein Panzerregiment)

KStN 1107 • Headquarters, Tank Battalion — Stab einer Panzerabteilung
KStN 1150 • Headquarters Company, Tank Battalion — Stabskompanie einer Panzerabteilung
KStN 1183 • Light Column, Tank Battalion — Leichte Kolonne einer Panzerabteilung
KStN 1171 • Light Tank Company — Leichte Panzerkompanie
KStN 1175 • Medium Tank Company — Mittlere Panzerkompanie

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Urmel » 09 Nov 2014 23:15

Going through the loading lists:

Ankara, loading complete 4 March 41:

Regimental Staff PR5 (4 off/65 OR)
1 tank (21t)
1 tank (10t)
1 tank (5.6t)
1 prime mover (8.5t)
4 trucks (5.8t)
11 med. cars (3.3t)
6 mc/ w/sidecar
1 trailer
1 radio vehicle (3.3t)

Staff company II./PR5 (3/72)
2 Panzer II (10t)
2 tanks (5.6t)
9 medium trucks (5.8t)
3 medium cars (3.3t)
1 light car
8 heavy m/c

Kybfels, loading complete 4 March 41:

Regimental Staff PR5 (6 off/39 OR)
1 tank (21t)
1 tank (10t)
1 tank (5.6t)
1 prime mover (8.5t)
4 medium trucks (5.8t)
4 heavy cars
3 mc/ w/sidecar
2 light cars

Staff company II./PR5 (3/70)
1 tank (21t)
1 tank (10t)
2 tanks (5.6t)
9 medium trucks (5.8t)
4 heavy cars
2 light car
9 heavy m/c with side cars
1 prime mover 4.9t
1 ammunition trailer

Reichenfels, loading complete 4 March 41:

Replacement column PR5
3 medium trucks

Regimental Staff PR5 (1 off/36 OR)
1 Panzer II
1 Panzer I
6 medium trucks
2 medium cars
3 heavy m/c w/sidecar
2 light cars

Staff company II./PR5 (3/76)
1 Panzer III
1 Panzer II
3 Panzer I
1 prime mover
7 medium trucks
5 medium cars
2 light cars
8 light m/c with side cars

Alicante, loading complete 6 March 41:

Staff company I./PR5 (0/41)
1 Panzer II
2 Panzer I
8 medium trucks
1 car
7 heavy m/c
1 trailer (1 axle)

Arcturus, loading complete 6 March 41:

Staff company I./PR5 (2/72)
3 tanks (10t)
1 tank 5.6t
8 medium trucks (5.8t)
5 cars
8 heavy m/c with side cars

Wachtfels, loading complete 6 March 41:

Staff company I./PR5 (0/89)
1 tanks (21t)
2 tanks (10t)
2 tanks 5.6t
12 medium trucks (5.8t)
7 medium cars (3.3t)
8 heavy m/c with side cars
1 prime mover

Ruhr, loading complete 10 March 41:

Pz. Workshop Company PR5 (7/144)
25 medium trucks (4.7-6.5t)
7 light cars
1 medium car
3 medium trucks (7.5t)
2 Buses
1 medium cars
6 heavy m/c with side cars
3 medium prime movers 12.2t
3 heavy prime movers 21.5t
2 trailers 22.5t (low loader)
2 trailers 13.4t (low loader)
4 trailers (1 axle)
1 crane trailer
1 recovery axle

Maritza, loading complete 10 March 41:

Pz. Workshop Company PR5 (0/45)
13 trucks
7 cars
5 heavy m/c with side cars

Castellon, loading complete 10 March 41:

Pz. Workshop Company PR5 (0/6)
3 trucks

Leverkusen, loading complete 11 March 41:

Pz. Workshop Company PR5 (2/91)
12 medium trucks
1 light car
1 medium car
3 medium trucks
1 Bus
1 m/c
3 trailers 22.5t (low loader)
2 trailers 13.4t (low loader)
3 trailers (1 axle)
1 recovery axle

Adana, loading complete 13 March 41:

1st Column PR5 (1/57)
5 m/c with side car
1 light car
1 medium car
21 medium trucks
1 AA vehicle

Spare parts column PR5 (1/24)
9 medium trucks
3 m/c with side cars

Aegina, loading complete 13 March 41:

1st Column PR5 (1/53)
5 m/c with side car
1 light car
1 medium car
21 medium trucks (5.8t)

Spare parts column PR5 (0/4)
2 trucks

Galilea, loading complete 13 March 41:

1st Column PR5 (1/5/47)
1 heavy m/c
1 light car
21 medium trucks

Spare parts column PR5 (1/4/29)
4 cars
2 m/c with side cars

Herakleia, loading complete 13 March 41:

1st Column PR5 (1/52)
4 heavy m/c
1 light car
21 medium trucks

Spare parts column PR5 (0/18)
6 trucks
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by ClintHardware » 11 Nov 2014 13:35

Great info - thanks Leo and Urmel
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 14 Aug 2020 08:28

Urmel,

Would you please provide the source reference for your list(s)? The document(s) and signature(s), if possible.
My interest stems from the fact that these loading numbers come very close, if not being identical, to what I have estimated for missing KStN dated 01.02.41, applicable for those in use June 1941.

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Urmel » 14 Aug 2020 16:50

Lieber Leo

DM is on the way.

Best wishes to you and yours too!
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Urmel » 14 Aug 2020 16:52

ClintHardware wrote:
11 Nov 2014 13:35
Great info - thanks Leo and Urmel
Important to note that 3rd and 7th company never made it to North Africa in 1941. They were finally delivered to Benghazi and Tripolis on 21-23 December but assigned to PR8 which had lost both of its companies when Fabio Filzi and Carlo del Greco were sunk. 21. PD was in the dog house at the time.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 14 Aug 2020 18:50

Urmel [ :wink: ]
Many thnaks.

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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by ClintHardware » 15 Aug 2020 13:48

Urmel and Leo
Looking at Panzertruppen Vol 1 p174
3./ Panzer Regiment 8 landed at Benghazi 19/12/41 with 5 Pzr II and 17 Pzr III
7./ Panzer Regiment 8 landed at Tripoli 19/12/41 with 6 Pzr II and 17 Pzr III
From a post added sometime ago I understood that 3. and 7./ Panzer Regiment 5 were sunk on Carlo del Greco and Fabio Filzi, together with 52 Italian tanks, in the Gulf of Taranto, on 13/12/41 by HM Submarine Upright.
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 15 Aug 2020 13:55

My interest was mainly the tank maintenance company.
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by ClintHardware » 15 Aug 2020 14:09

That's cool Leo but Urmel do you know why is there a difference in the data?
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Re: Panzer Regiment 5 OOB Query March 1941

Post by Leo Niehorster » 15 Aug 2020 14:21

KStN1187 dated 15.09.41 for the Panzer-Werkstatt company agrees almost in all aspects with the ship loading totals of the 5. PzRgt bound for North Africa in March 1941. That probably indicates that the PzRgt 5 KStN totals shipped are those conforming to the 01.02.41 version.

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