SS Leverkusen

Discussions on WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean. Hosted by Andy H
User avatar
Xavier
Financial supporter
Posts: 3172
Joined: 12 Nov 2002 02:01
Location: Swedish guinea

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Xavier » 12 Aug 2016 17:20

IMHO it can not be the SS Leverkusen, this one is loaded with equipment , the Leverkusen was on a return trip, so it must habe been empty...

sebastiano
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: 17 Aug 2010 17:45

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by sebastiano » 12 Aug 2016 18:55

Thanks Xavier, you may very well be right, and I would say the same in another case. But I've some experience on this matter, and there're several element that bring to Leverkusen. It can be something unusual and strange that happened and caused the ship to bring some equipment back. Or maybe it is not the Leverkusen. I keep my case open :)

GregSingh
Member
Posts: 2725
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 01:11
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by GregSingh » 13 Aug 2016 07:49

More candidates.
Kerkennah Islands 1941.04.16.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 16 Aug 2016 17:11

I can't find any 2cm guns loaded on the 20th squadron. Given that the guns were on board that would pretty much rule out Leverkusen in my view.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 16 Aug 2016 17:12

What's the tank?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

sebastiano
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: 17 Aug 2010 17:45

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by sebastiano » 16 Aug 2016 22:16

thanks Urmel. Can you find it on the Iserlhorn? The tank is on another wreck, the one of the Bainsizza. I have no idea which tank it is.

Dili
Member
Posts: 2028
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 22:54
Location: Lusitania

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Dili » 16 Aug 2016 22:30

I think we should call it tracked vehicle instead of tank.
At first sight with that boggie structure it would appear an Italian vehicle a L6/40 perhaps but some stuff doesn't add,and it seems too short.

I thought also about a Bren carrier, but also the upper side don't match.

I also checked the Goliath anti mine but this is too big. An interesting question to put in the Ron Klages subforum.

LColombo
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 02 Feb 2014 00:17
Location: Somewhere in Lombardy

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by LColombo » 17 Aug 2016 00:40

Due to the limited capacity of the Libyan port infrastructures, it sometimes happened that when a new convoy arrived, and ships from an older convoy had not yet unloaded all their cargo, the latter were made to leave the port and return to Italy with some of their cargo still aboard, to prevent the ships of the newly arrived convoy from spending too much time in the dangerous waters outside the harbour. In some cases, up to 1,000 tons of matériel had to be brought back to Italy, due to this inconvenience.
This may have been the case for Leverkusen.
Wonderful photos, by the way.

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 17 Aug 2016 09:29

Leverkusen did not have identifiable 20mm guns on the outbound journey. There is a possibility that they were included in 18.5t 'fliegerisches Geraet' but I doubt that. It did have an Italian search-light unit on board on the outbound with 1 6to searchlight and 3 4to searchlights.

Iserlohn had one unidentified gun, which may have been airforce. No 20mm guns identified.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

sebastiano
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: 17 Aug 2010 17:45

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by sebastiano » 17 Aug 2016 13:14

Thanks Urmel and Colombo for the very good info. Urmel, what is a 6to and 4to (searchlights)? Thanks!

M.

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 17 Aug 2016 14:18

According to the KTB of STHS Tripoli Leverkusen was fully discharged on the visit to Tripoli prior to her sinking.

Sebastiano, there seem to have been two types of search lights, one smaller weighing 4 tons, the other 6 tons. No further specification.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Dili
Member
Posts: 2028
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 22:54
Location: Lusitania

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Dili » 17 Aug 2016 15:06

No more photos of the tracked vehicle?

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 17 Aug 2016 15:12

sebastiano wrote:Yes, unfortunately I think so, they are not restorable due to salt water. Pity. I'd like to film them with a 360° and 3D camera though, and this can also be a nice project. Technology is coming, still costy but coming!
Well they are preservable, but not restorable. At a price though.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/thi ... ation.aspx
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

LColombo
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 02 Feb 2014 00:17
Location: Somewhere in Lombardy

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by LColombo » 17 Aug 2016 15:23

Notice that the Tarigo convoy wrecks were "visited" in the early 1950s by the Italian salvage firm MICOPERI, that partially or totally scrapped the wrecks of Arta, Tarigo, Baleno, Mohawk, Iserlohn and Adana. Something of them remained, but if the wreck is intact (and with cargo still in the holds in good condition, as I see), it is extremely unlikely that it belongs to one of these ships. Aegina and Sabaudia, apparently, were not found by the salvagers.
MICOPERI also worked on the wrecks of Antonietta Lauro, also sunk in the area, and Leverkusen herself (the deepest wreck they worked on during that campaign), though I do not know the extent of the salvage work on these ships.

User avatar
Urmel
Member
Posts: 4034
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 09:34
Location: The late JBond

Re: SS Leverkusen

Post by Urmel » 17 Aug 2016 15:35

Aegina wasn't carrying any guns. Sabaudia doesn't seem to have had German equipment on board.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Return to “WW2 in Africa & the Mediterranean”