German tank deliveries to North Africa

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Urmel
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German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 15 Jan 2018 03:50

As promised in this thread: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 6&t=232737 I have started to work on the spreadsheet to track the delivery of all German tanks to North Africa, utilising the cargo lists. I have a screenshot of the spreadsheet attached, and would be interested to hear if people think that other information would be useful to be captured.

I will confirm that the cargo lists are complete against vessel departures for North Africa, and will also confirm it against the vessels lost.

In the first instance this will cover the period to February 1942, and if I have time I may extend it to the end of 1942, although I have to check the completeness of my records for that period.

The initial aim is to correct the list provided at this link, which does have errors in it. http://rommelsriposte.com/2013/03/07/ge ... rth-africa
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The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Dili » 15 Jan 2018 21:24

Nice.

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Leo Niehorster » 16 Jan 2018 09:04

Looks very interesting.
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Brevity » 17 Jan 2018 09:54

Urmel wrote:Image
Thank you Urmel, this will be very useful!
It's a first bunch of PR5 tanks, sent to Africa early for testing
Something more about them...
Image
Image
ImageImage
Image
Image
The first photo shows all medium tanks from this group. From the left, the tanks are:
Panzer III 602
Panzer III 232
Panzer IV, 4 coy, no number painted yet
Panzer IV, 8 coy

The second photo is 232 entering Napoli harbor with Panzer IIs in tow
The third one is 232 getting hoisted on Leverkusen
The next two show 602 being lifted on some small ship, supposedly Maritza, going by Urmel's list
The last one is a still from Wochenschau 550, which mostly shows MG 8 parade in Tripoli (it took place on 28 February), with 2 Pz.II also present

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 18 Jan 2018 01:59

Thanks Brevity, that is superb. I'm on a lengthy business trip next week including two 14 hours flights, so will have time to work on this.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 29 Jan 2018 00:23

I've completed the deliveries through end of March now, and will post them later tonight or tomorrow. This includes the initial PR5 and PzJg 605.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 04 Mar 2018 02:00

As usual later than planned, but you can download the file here:

http://rommelsriposte.com/2018/03/04/ge ... 5-lei-div/
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Brevity » 06 Mar 2018 06:58

Thank you!

Some numbers don't add up, can you double check? Kybfels section seems to be missing the 5. coy tanks.
Replace all Pz.III with Pz.IV for 4. and 8. coy.
You have Pz.Jg.Abt. 605 with 32 vehicles. Common knowledge is they had 27x Pz.Jg.I and 4x Pz.I B. Do the shipping lists tell both types apart? What was an extra vehicle, if they had one?
BTW do you have something about shipping to Crete around late May 1941? I'm especially looking for the travels of Alicante before it was sunk.
I'm gonna keep working on ship identification this week, I'll post results in a few days

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 06 Mar 2018 07:09

Thanks Brevity. I have some other comments on the blog and will issue a revision by the weekend.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 10 Mar 2018 07:10

New document uploaded, includes corrections from Markus and Brevity.

http://rommelsriposte.com/2018/03/04/ge ... -5-lei-div

Regarding the question:

1) PzJg 605 - no, the types of vehicles are not set apart. No idea what the extra vehicle was.
2) Afraid I have nothing on Crete shipping.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by MarkN » 10 Mar 2018 19:41

Brevity wrote: You have Pz.Jg.Abt. 605 with 32 vehicles. Common knowledge is they had 27x Pz.Jg.I and 4x Pz.I B. Do the shipping lists tell both types apart? What was an extra vehicle, if they had one?
Urmel wrote: 1) PzJg 605 - no, the types of vehicles are not set apart. No idea what the extra vehicle was.
Common knowledge has indeed coalesced around the 27x Pz.Jg.I and 4x Pz.I numbers. But upon what evidence have these numbers been built? Urmel's shipping data is the nearest I've seen to authoritative data as opposed to supposition based upon KStN. Perhaps it's time to reevaluate previous assumptions. :wink:

I have this from the 5.lei-Div KTB Ia, 15 April 1941.
... die Pz.Jg.605 nur noch 4 Geschutze von 28.
Perhaps my original assumption that 28 was a typo for 27 is misplaced. :wink:

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 10 Mar 2018 23:40

May just have been a spare? That's nice info by the way.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 11 Mar 2018 01:39

More error corrections, thanks to Markus.

http://rommelsriposte.com/2018/03/04/ge ... -5-lei-div
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 11 Mar 2018 12:25

New file uploaded. Now covers whole transport of 15.PD and replacements up to 30 July.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Dili » 11 Mar 2018 22:59

When it is finished i'll put it in the topic i opened resources spent by Germany/Allies in Mediterranean

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