German tank deliveries to North Africa
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Also if you have the table in a spreadsheet you can just take a screenshot and post it as an image.
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hello to all ; more.......................................
To Libya 1941.
A Pz Kw III Ausf. H being loaded aboard.....bound for Africa..
Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s50.html
Which ship? Cheers. Raúl M .
Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - feliz Ano Novo - gluckliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!!
To Libya 1941.
A Pz Kw III Ausf. H being loaded aboard.....bound for Africa..
Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s50.html
Which ship? Cheers. Raúl M .
Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - feliz Ano Novo - gluckliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!!
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- image068.jpg (32.79 KiB) Viewed 6307 times
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hello to all ; more.......................................
Tripoli 1941.
Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s40.html
Cheers. Raúl M .
Tripoli 1941.
Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s40.html
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- Pz Kw III Ausf. G of PR 5 during a stop in Tripoli; in this case by numbering it belongs to the 2. Company.............................
- image004.jpg (69.75 KiB) Viewed 5674 times
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hi!
I was watching this thread and I am getting confused as looking for a particular datum that I suppose you have here... but I can not find...
I am just interested in learning how much german tanks type Mark III and IV ("special" or not) were allocated for the African front between mid-june and mid-november 1942 (between the battles of Gazala and second Alamein). The reason why this information interests me has to do with learning how much armor strength was lost for the Eastern Front in that period due to the necessity to supply Rommel for his ill-fated mission in Egypt.
I know that, at least, they used in the second Alamein 100 tanks III special and IV special arrived to Africa on those days, but I presume that more were sent, some of them lost maybe in other battles (like Alam Halfa) and some others lost in the sea... I would like to get that figure...
Thank you very much
I was watching this thread and I am getting confused as looking for a particular datum that I suppose you have here... but I can not find...
I am just interested in learning how much german tanks type Mark III and IV ("special" or not) were allocated for the African front between mid-june and mid-november 1942 (between the battles of Gazala and second Alamein). The reason why this information interests me has to do with learning how much armor strength was lost for the Eastern Front in that period due to the necessity to supply Rommel for his ill-fated mission in Egypt.
I know that, at least, they used in the second Alamein 100 tanks III special and IV special arrived to Africa on those days, but I presume that more were sent, some of them lost maybe in other battles (like Alam Halfa) and some others lost in the sea... I would like to get that figure...
Thank you very much
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Afraid I don’t have reliable data after March 1942.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
The Strength Chart in "Workhorse" gives 76 x Pz III lang and 2 x Pz IV lang as the replacements sent in July/August but I don't know how reliable that is.
Alan
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
What I got is that
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/ba ... azala.html
According to this text, in Gazala (june 1942) Rommel had "His most effective tanks were 19 Panzer III 'specials', armed with the long L/60 50mm gun. He also had 232 of the older Panzer IIIs with the shorter L/42 50mm gun and forty Panzer IV, which at this date were armed with a short barrelled 75mm howitzer and were really infantry support tanks. "
That is: 19 Pz III "specials", 232 Pz III and 40 Pz IV
And here, about stregth german armor in El Alamein (october 1942)
http://gregpanzerblitz.com/El%20Alamein ... lamein.pdf
That is: 88 Pz III "specials", 85 Pz III, 8 Pz IV and 30 Pz IV "specials"
So, from one battle to the other, AT LEAST 30 Pz IV "specials" and 69 Pz III "specials" were new...
Maybe using other sources I could improved the tally... For example, learning how many tanks were irrecoverable losses in the battles between Gazala and second Alamein
(I am not counting the assault guns...)
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/ba ... azala.html
According to this text, in Gazala (june 1942) Rommel had "His most effective tanks were 19 Panzer III 'specials', armed with the long L/60 50mm gun. He also had 232 of the older Panzer IIIs with the shorter L/42 50mm gun and forty Panzer IV, which at this date were armed with a short barrelled 75mm howitzer and were really infantry support tanks. "
That is: 19 Pz III "specials", 232 Pz III and 40 Pz IV
And here, about stregth german armor in El Alamein (october 1942)
http://gregpanzerblitz.com/El%20Alamein ... lamein.pdf
That is: 88 Pz III "specials", 85 Pz III, 8 Pz IV and 30 Pz IV "specials"
So, from one battle to the other, AT LEAST 30 Pz IV "specials" and 69 Pz III "specials" were new...
Maybe using other sources I could improved the tally... For example, learning how many tanks were irrecoverable losses in the battles between Gazala and second Alamein
(I am not counting the assault guns...)
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Number of tanks delivered/lost in transit:
Panzer III
March 42 - 6/3
April 42 - 14/0
May 42 - 33/6
June 42 - 2/6
July 42 - 47/3
August 42 - 29/3
September 42 - 7/9
Panzer IV
May 42 - 9/0
July 42 - 10/0
August 42 - 10/0
September 42 - 12/0
However, as Andreas says, take with a grain of salt.
Panzer III
March 42 - 6/3
April 42 - 14/0
May 42 - 33/6
June 42 - 2/6
July 42 - 47/3
August 42 - 29/3
September 42 - 7/9
Panzer IV
May 42 - 9/0
July 42 - 10/0
August 42 - 10/0
September 42 - 12/0
However, as Andreas says, take with a grain of salt.
Richard C. Anderson Jr.
American Thunder: U.S. Army Tank Design, Development, and Doctrine in World War II
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall
Hitler's Last Gamble
Artillery Hell
American Thunder: U.S. Army Tank Design, Development, and Doctrine in World War II
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall
Hitler's Last Gamble
Artillery Hell
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Thank you so much Richard!
These figures fit together well with my tally... I see "32" Panzer IV arrived up to September. Nearly the "30" figure I got.
So it could be Panzer IV "32" and Panzer III "83"... delivered, plus "15" lost. It makes sense: "130" tanks less for the Ostfront
These figures fit together well with my tally... I see "32" Panzer IV arrived up to September. Nearly the "30" figure I got.
So it could be Panzer IV "32" and Panzer III "83"... delivered, plus "15" lost. It makes sense: "130" tanks less for the Ostfront
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hi, everyone, I am collecting German tank deliveries to Tunisia during November 1941 :
10. Panzer Division with actual arrvial : 8 x Pz IV, 89 x Pz III L60, 19 x Pz II and 6 x Pz Bef
sPz.Abt.501 with 20 x Tiger and 25 x Pz IIIN
Pz.Abt.190 with 52 x Pz III, 10 x Pz IV, 7 x Pz II and 2 Bef
22 x Pz IV Long , each 11 to 15. and 21. Pz divisions.
Any more Addition in November 1942 ? Even Italian tanks data are welcome.
10. Panzer Division with actual arrvial : 8 x Pz IV, 89 x Pz III L60, 19 x Pz II and 6 x Pz Bef
sPz.Abt.501 with 20 x Tiger and 25 x Pz IIIN
Pz.Abt.190 with 52 x Pz III, 10 x Pz IV, 7 x Pz II and 2 Bef
22 x Pz IV Long , each 11 to 15. and 21. Pz divisions.
Any more Addition in November 1942 ? Even Italian tanks data are welcome.
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hi
For what its worth this is from Hitler and His Generals (Military Conferences 1942-45) by Hieber & Glantz
Andy H
For what its worth this is from Hitler and His Generals (Military Conferences 1942-45) by Hieber & Glantz
RegardsDec1st: Jodl states that on November 27th two ships arrived in Tunis, carrying 32PzIII’s 1 Tiger and 2 tanks with long guns, so altogether 35 tanks and 28 patrol cars.
Andy H
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hello to all ; more.......................................
To Libya 1941.
Source: https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-Kennung- ... id=1&pid=1
Cheers. Raúl M .
To Libya 1941.
Source: https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-Kennung- ... id=1&pid=1
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- Pz Kw III Ausf. G, numeral 742, of PR 5 being shipped to North Africa................
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hi All,
have to say Im really impressed with the details you guys have on this thread, some really great work done.
not sure if any of you know I was the guy who found the Tiger Tank in Germany with the help of a couple of local German guys one I believe Xavier may still post on here. I had the TV company and money in place for that project but with it being in Germany and under the current political climate we were never going to get permission to dig it out. We did also make a program with Channel 5 & the History Channel about digging up a Spitfire and the original pilot was still alive at the time and came over to see his plane.
I have the old Magnetometer plots somewhere that shows the tank deep down if I can dig them out will post on here so you can see the results.
Im working on a couple of locations on missing Tiger Tanks and am looking for any information you have about one I believe was lost being shipped to Italy on board the SS Menes. If anyone could shed any light on this would be great. I think this was the only Tiger lost at sea in North Africa but maybe Im wrong.
have to say Im really impressed with the details you guys have on this thread, some really great work done.
not sure if any of you know I was the guy who found the Tiger Tank in Germany with the help of a couple of local German guys one I believe Xavier may still post on here. I had the TV company and money in place for that project but with it being in Germany and under the current political climate we were never going to get permission to dig it out. We did also make a program with Channel 5 & the History Channel about digging up a Spitfire and the original pilot was still alive at the time and came over to see his plane.
I have the old Magnetometer plots somewhere that shows the tank deep down if I can dig them out will post on here so you can see the results.
Im working on a couple of locations on missing Tiger Tanks and am looking for any information you have about one I believe was lost being shipped to Italy on board the SS Menes. If anyone could shed any light on this would be great. I think this was the only Tiger lost at sea in North Africa but maybe Im wrong.
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hello to all ; more...............................
Pz Kw III to Libya 1941.
Sources: https://www.ebay.de/b/Militaria-Fotos-1 ... n_16578829
Cheers. Raul M .
Pz Kw III to Libya 1941.
Sources: https://www.ebay.de/b/Militaria-Fotos-1 ... n_16578829
Cheers. Raul M .
- Attachments
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- The crew of this Pz Kw III Ausf F? posing for the photo.................................
- image009.jpg (20.47 KiB) Viewed 4529 times
Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa
Hello to all ; more...............................
Pz Kw III to Libya 1941.
Sequence of loading a Pz Kw III into the hold of a transport..............................
Sources: https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-III-Afri ... 19454.html
https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-Kennung- ... id=1&pid=1
https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-III-Verl ... id=1&pid=1
Cheers. Raul M .
Pz Kw III to Libya 1941.
Sequence of loading a Pz Kw III into the hold of a transport..............................
Sources: https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-III-Afri ... 19454.html
https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-Kennung- ... id=1&pid=1
https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-III-Verl ... id=1&pid=1
Cheers. Raul M .
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