Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

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Joda
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Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Joda » 28 Oct 2018 20:21

I'd like to find info about the history of Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia; order of battle, actions, tanks used..

Thanks in advance,

Marco

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Yoozername » 29 Oct 2018 01:33

https://rommelsriposte.com/

try this? I usually check that site every 6 months or so

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Urmel
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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Urmel » 29 Oct 2018 08:26

Nothing on Tunisia I’m afraid, but thanks for the plug! 😊
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Yoozername » 30 Oct 2018 17:57

Some mentions here in regards to actions with the Tiger battalion...

https://books.google.com/books?id=qTi6u ... 07&f=false

Joda
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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Joda » 30 Oct 2018 18:05

Thanks guys

Yes it looks that Schw.Pz.Abteilung 501 fought side by side with Pz.Rgt.7, but commands were separated
It was not under control of PzRgt 7

Am I right ?

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by jwsleser » 30 Oct 2018 23:28

I can't provide much as my area of interest is the R.E. The following information is extracted from Montanari's Le operazioni in Africa settentrionale vol IV Enfidaville. I am sure someone has better information and will correct any mistakes.

The regiment was in Tunisia by the end of November/early December.

The regiment fought at:

First Battle of Tebourba 1-4 Dec.
Second Battle of Tebourba 10-12 Dec.
Battle of Thala 21-22 Jan.
Operations Ochsenkopf and Entladung 26 Feb-2 Mar.
Battles of El Guettar 22-31 Mar.
Final fighting for Tunisia 23 Apr-12 May.

Note these are Italian names and I pulled general info. Someone more conversant with the German force will need to add detail/refine.

Pista! Jeff
battaglione Alpini sciatori Monte Cervino (Reenacted)
5th Greek Regiment
9th reggimento bersaglieri

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Michael Kenny » 15 Nov 2018 21:31

Yoozername wrote:
30 Oct 2018 17:57
Some mentions here in regards to actions with the Tiger battalion...

https://books.google.com/books?id=qTi6u ... 07&f=false
Schneider is a very poor source. His entry in Tigers In Combat 1 for Dec:



sPzAbt 501

1 December 1942:
First employment of 3 Tigers and 4 Panzer Ills of the l./schwere
Panzer-Abteilung 501 (Hauptmann von Nolde) starting from an assembly area 7 kilome-
ters east ofDschedeida brings relief for own forces (9 US tanks knocked out). The com-
pany commander is killed in action. Oberleutnant Deichmann takes over and destroys 2
British tanks
before he himself is killed by a sniper.

2 December 1942:
Kampfgruppe Lueder (with 1 Tiger and 5 Panzer Ills) is ordered by
the commander of the 10. Panzer-Division to attack Tebourba from the north via
Chouigui. It stops enemy breakthrough to the west (6 Stuarts and 4 Allied antitank guns
knocked out
or destroyed; 3 Panzer Ills destroyed). Due to the weak combat morale of the
accompanying infantry, the attack comes to a standstill.

3 December 1942:
The attack is continued after the attachment of two grenadier com-
panies to the last operational Tiger and two Panzer Ills. Encirclement of Teborba after 3
additional Tigers (unloaded in Bizerta) are assembled south of el Bathan.

4 December 1942:
Capture of Teborba supported by Stukas (all Tigers put out of
action). Enemy losses amount to 134 out of 182 tanks. Kampfgruppe Lueder is disbanded.


The reality here:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... WA-17.html

page 320:

Robinett's party arrived after a sortie of over thirty light tanks--made by 1st Battalion, 13th Armored Regiment, against German Mark IV's without benefit of artillery support--had been driven back with heavy losses, and as Colonel Bruss was sending medium tanks of Company E, 13th Armored Regiment, toward Tebourba with a view to reinforcing and extricating the remainder of the 2d Battalion of that regiment, west of the village. This ill-conceived attempt subjected the American vehicles to antitank fire which destroyed eight of the Shermans
Group Koch then advanced northward from El Bathan and established contact with the other Axis units. The Allies had been stopped and turned back. They had withdrawn what they could, but the losses inflicted upon them by General Fischer's command in four days were estimated by him to total: 55 tanks, 4 armored cars, 4 antitank guns, 6 100-mm. guns and 6 120-mm. guns, 13 smaller guns, 38 machine guns, 40 mortars, 300 motor vehicles, 1,000 to 1,100 Allied prisoners, and quantities of ammunition of many kinds.9

9. (1) 10 Panzer Div, Ic, TB Anlagen, 29.XI.42-15,III.43, Anlage 49. (2) Ltr, Gen Robinett to Gen Marshall, 8 Dec 42. Copy in OPD Exec 8, Item 7, Tab 30. This letter describes the close coordination of German air and ground operations at Tebourba. (3) The 11th Brigade's losses were recorded as 21 guns in battle and 32 during the withdrawal, leaving 21. Casualties reduced its three battalions to a total of 660, plus stragglers. Info supplied by Cabinet Office, London. (4) Maj. J. M. Barton, M.C., "The Hampshire Regiment at Tebourba," The Army Quarterly, XLVIII, No. 1 (April, 1944), 57-63.

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Joda » 19 Nov 2018 09:59

Thanks Michael,
Reading an abstract from "The afrika korps, an organizational history, di Georg Nafziger", it looks that the 501th Tank Rgt was absorbed by 7.Pz.Rgt as III./Pz.Rgt.7
According to what I know but, the unit was under Major Lueder until Feb.1943, and later Major Seidensticker from 504th: It looks that the unit was only under the 7th Pz.Rgt, but in reality its commanders were independent from the regiment...

So, I mean; the Panzer Regiment 7 had only the support of the Tiger from 501st, but not under its command..

Am I correct?

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by julian T » 07 Mar 2019 17:30

The question I would like to ask: Was the German tank crews in the Tigers of the 501st crew belonging to Panzer-Regiment 7. Crew who had in the past fort in Russia.
Were the Ttiger crews the same men who had for in Russia as part of panzer regement 7. Or were they completely different tank crew members.

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Byrden » 04 Jun 2019 15:55

Joda wrote:
19 Nov 2018 09:59
So, I mean; the Panzer Regiment 7 had only the support of the Tiger from 501st, but not under its command..
Am I correct?
According to Schneider, the 501 was attached to 10 Panzer at first. It had 2 companies and 20 Tigers plus I don't know how many Pz.3.

Its original staffing was from training schools and "replacement" battalions in Germany. It was not then earmarked for 10 Panzer Division so it didn't have a reason to take crew from there.

In February 1943 the 501 was redesignated as 3 battalion of Panzer Regiment 7. Its companies were renamed the 7 and 8 companies. The crews of 2 company dutifully repainted all their turret numbers to begin with 8 rather than 2.

Operation Ochsenkopf cut the battalion in half and left it without commanding officers.

The remaining Tigers were renumbered 7xx to form a single company, and attached to the newly arriving 504 battalion to give them commanders. But they remained quite capable. Most of the force that halted the Americans at Maknassy were the old Tigers of 501.

David

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Joda » 04 Jun 2019 20:54

Thank you very much for these info David ;)

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Martin_Schenkel » 05 Jun 2019 15:24

According to Nafziger's "Panzers and Artillery in WW2", 7th Pz Rgt (10th Pz Div) arrived in Tunisia with 2 Bns of 1 Med Company and 3 Lt Companies each, for a total of 21 PzII, 105 PzIIIJ, 4 PzIVF1, 16 Pz IVF2, and 9 command tanks. Later, Pz Bn 501 was to become the 3rd Bn of Pz Rgt 7.

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Urmel » 30 Jul 2019 09:56

Nafziger is unfortunately not a reliable source.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 30 Jul 2019 15:43

In this case Nafziger has his figures correct, at least according to Jentz in PT 2.
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Re: Panzer-Regiment 7 in Tunisia, info needed ;)

Post by Urmel » 30 Jul 2019 16:43

Unless of course Jentz quoted from Nafziger. :)
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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