Did Royal Navy recovered floatplanes in Mediterranean?

[Dili]

I mean the battleship and cruiser that launched stopping to recover it.

Regia Marina and French Marine did not in operations i am aware of. Also in Grog Operation i know the Walrus went to land in Ark Royal.

[jwsleser]

Off the top of my head, I not sure the RN used floatplanes to any extent in the Med. The availability of carriers and land-based long range reconnaissance made the use of float planes unnecessary. I can't think of a single action where float planes were used. It would be interesting to read about any use.

As you know, the Italians used float planes and these usually returned to an airfield rather than be recovered at sea.

[Dili]

I remember in naval bombing of Bardia they employed floatplanes for spotting.

Jeff Italian floatplanes returned to a naval base or anchorage since they were not amphibians like the Walrus.

[Ironmachine]

They were used and they were recovered if possible. For example:

News on March 27, 1941, that Italian heavy ships were at sea, threatening an Allied convoy, caused Cunningham to sail his battlefleet in pursuit. His memoirs recount a frustrating day punctuated by differing reports from a variety of sources about the enemy’s composition and manoeuvres. Rice was catapulted shortly after midday with Pacey and the new fleet observer, Lieutenant-Commander (later Rear-Admiral) “Ben” Bolt to try to clarify the situation. Their first sortie — of nearly five hours — was fruitless. Warspite and the other battleships were struggling to close the range on the modern Italian battleship Vittorio Veneto and to recover the floatplane, by the usual method of turning sharply to form a calm “slick” to land on, would have caused further unacceptable delay. Instead, Rice landed his aircraft in front of the charging Warspite and matched her speed by taxiing until the crane hook could be grabbed — an unpractised but effective manoeuvre. Refuelled, they were launched again and Bolt was finally able to report the disposition, course and speed of the Italians. Cunningham remarked: “By 6.30 we had the first of a series of reports from this highly trained and experienced officer, which quickly told us what we needed.” Cunningham’s bold tactical handling thereafter resulted in the sinking of three Italian heavy cruisers and two destroyers for no British losses. Rice had to land at Suda Bay in Crete in the dark, having prudently brought along a few floating flares to tell him where the surface was, and taxied some five miles to get into harbour. He had been airborne for more than eight hours.

http://www.militaria.cz/cz/detail-154

[Dili]

Thanks Ironmachine, i made the same question in warships forums

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warship ... 39335.html

[Ironmachine]

A rather different kind of "recovery" of a British floatplane in the Mediterranean happened during Operation Catapult (the attack on Mers-el-Kébir):

Tackling the French fleet was an unwelcome task for the Royal Navy, whose personnel were all too aware that until recently they had been an ally. Vice-Admiral Sir James Somerville, in command of Force H based on Gibraltar, was anxious to avoid a battle with the French. On 3 July he presented his opposite number at Oran, Admiral Gensoul, with an ultimatum, demanding that the French warships be handed over or neutralised, by which he meant that they should be non-operational. Force H included the aircraft carrier Ark Royal, commanded by Captain Holland, who was sent to meet Gensoul, flying in a Fairey Swordfish seaplane from a battlecruiser. The British ultimatum was rejected, leaving Holland to fly back to his ship, on which the arrester wires had been removed to allow the seaplane to land safely on her deck.

From Stringbag: The Fairey Swordfish at War by David Wragg (the book includes three photographs of the landing).

The story is told with different details (that I find far more convincing) here https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chron ... _Royal.htm, but the basic fact remains that a floatplane was "recovered" by landing on the Ark Royal:

[It was around this time that a 'one off' incident occurred on ARK ROYAL. Earlier in the day the VALIANT had flown off one of her float equipped Swordfish to carry out fall of shot spotting. When the VALIANT joined the HOOD in a stern chase she could not stop to recover her aircraft. Rather than ditch the aircraft her pilot Petty Officer JE Breese asked permission to land on ARK ROYAL, permission was granted. As he made the descent his crew, Sub-Lieu Peter Starmer and Naval Airman Roy Tolley, loosened their straps in preparation for leaping overboard when the Swordfish skidded over the side. But Breese made a near-perfect landing, going straight down the middle of the flight deck to stop dead after a few yards.
A Fairey Aviation mechanic on board then knocked out the dent in one of the floats and declared the aircraft fit to fly.
When ARK ROYAL arrived back at Gibraltar the Swordfish was lowered to the water and it taxied over to the VALIANT. it was then recovered by crane]

[Dili]

Haha, that is crazy.

[jwsleser]

Thanks for the info on the RN use of float planes. It isn't highlighted as much as you see in the Pacific battles.

In terms of the original question.

RE: Matapan. The use of float planes is barely mentioned in Playfair. What is interesting is in S.W.C. Pack's Night Action off Cape Matapan, the Warspite's float planes were to fly to Suda Bay, not to return to Warspite. It was fortuitous that Bolt returned to the ship, as there was a lack of clarity in the instructions. Pack offers Bolt's account on pp. 50-52. The plan was the aircraft to fly to Crete.

RE: Italian float planes. The Ro 43 was the standard float plane of the RM. It could be recovered at sea. Later in the war a mix of Re 2000 and Ro 43s were carried on the Littorio class ships. The RE 2000 only had wheels and must return to an airfield. Tactically the Italians could launch their ship-board planes and have them return to airfields as they had the airfields to support this. It was a tactical decision and not one based on the design of the aircraft.

[Ironmachine]

Also in Grog Operation i know the Walrus went to land in Ark Royal.

For the Walrus, with its landing gear, landing on an aircraft carrier was always an option. For example, during the Battle of Cape Matapan, a Gloucester's Walrus (Alice II / P5668) was launched and, after four and a half hours airborne, landed on Formidable. After refuelling, it take off and went to land at Suda Bay.

[Ironmachine]

Another example of a British seaplane being recovered in the Mediterranean is told in The Supermarine Walrus (by G.W.R. Nicholl, 1966): On 11 November 1940 a Walrus (L2299) from Gloucester was launched to investigate a splash seen from the ship. The Walrus found three men in a dinghy, the crew of a Swordfish that have ditched. The Walrus picked them up and returned to the Gloucester, that recovered the aircraft. Later, the Walrus was launched again to carry the rescued crew to the Illustrous.

[John T]

Haha, that is crazy.

but not that crazy,
with a stall speed around 50 kn,
Ark Royal doing up to 30 kn
head wind of 5 kn

you have a actual speed of 15 kn relative to the deck -
Seems not too desperate an option.

And by the way, the Swedes reinforced the floats of He-115 to be used as ski/skates on ice at the winter.

Cheers
/John

[Dili]

But the floats are not usually that resistant.