DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

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Urmel
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Urmel » 29 Dec 2020 14:32

Regardless, given the dates this would indicate that the KStN document in the OP was a theoretical KStN and not a real one.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 29 Dec 2020 19:44

Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 14:31
The annotations go out to at least October 1941, so I'm wondering a bit about the dating of this document now.
Where do you see an October annotation?

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Urmel » 29 Dec 2020 23:09

FEB box seems to me to be 10.41
Also Sanitätsdienste, hand-drawn unit seems to have 10.6.41 against it?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 29 Dec 2020 23:57

Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 23:09
FEB box seems to me to be 10.41
Nah, it's 10.04. The letters above overlap into the date.
Raising (Neuaufst.) FEB 33 on 10.4., to be ready (v.b.) by 1.5. (Order 2093 g.Kdos. 27.3.)
Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 23:09
Also Sanitätsdienste, hand-drawn unit seems to have 10.6.41 against it?
The "os" of order 2447 g.Kdos. looks like a 10, but the date is 6.4.

Unfortunately, these annotations only noted the day and month, not the year.
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 30 Dec 2020 00:00

Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 14:32
Regardless, given the dates this would indicate that the KStN document in the OP was a theoretical KStN and not a real one.

Would you please explain what you mean by this statement?
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by ClintHardware » 30 Dec 2020 03:36

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Leo Niehorster » 30 Dec 2020 11:42

Hi Clint,

I don't see any major differences.
- motorcycle detachment was included in the division headquarters KStN. (Shown in KTB version for clarity ?)
- The sub-units shown next to the Panzer battalion symbol were included in the KStN. (Shown in KTB version for clarity ?)
  • Except the armored engineer section — Which is a non-standard unit, and I don't know what KStN it would have had. Possibly detached from the Armored Engineer Company? With only 2 MG, it is probably a SPW-equipped unit.

- FEB 33 (raised after the date of the KTB diagram).
- Motorized Butcher Platoon 33, (deleted after the date of the KTB diagram).
- the Motorized Field Hospital 36, (raised after the date of the KTB diagram).
- Motorized Detachment with Spare Parts for Armored Vehicles (30 ton), (raised after the date of the KTB diagram).

Only real difference:
- the 13th and 14th motor transport companies.
  • A motorized fuel transport company had the same number and type of trucks as a motor transport company. The former had some specialized, fuel-handling personnel.) Possibly there weren't enough trucks to form a 60ton motorized transport company?
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Urmel » 30 Dec 2020 18:04

Leo Niehorster wrote:
30 Dec 2020 00:00
Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 14:32
Regardless, given the dates this would indicate that the KStN document in the OP was a theoretical KStN and not a real one.

Would you please explain what you mean by this statement?
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Leo
Just working from memory.

This KStN was not realised in 1941. E.g. 3. and 7. Kp of PR8 didn't join until 22 December 1941. Elements of AR33 were sunk in the Lampo convoy and not replaced until much later. SR104 was handed over to 21.PD at some point.

So in practice the division looked quite different in North Africa, and this KStN cannot be used as a guide for what it fielded through the year.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Urmel » 30 Dec 2020 18:04

Leo Niehorster wrote:
29 Dec 2020 23:57
Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 23:09
FEB box seems to me to be 10.41
Nah, it's 10.04. The letters above overlap into the date.
Raising (Neuaufst.) FEB 33 on 10.4., to be ready (v.b.) by 1.5. (Order 2093 g.Kdos. 27.3.)
Urmel wrote:
29 Dec 2020 23:09
Also Sanitätsdienste, hand-drawn unit seems to have 10.6.41 against it?
The "os" of order 2447 g.Kdos. looks like a 10, but the date is 6.4.

Unfortunately, these annotations only noted the day and month, not the year.
--
Leo
Danke!
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by ClintHardware » 31 Dec 2020 04:39

Thanks Leo and Urmel for your comments. I will add the pages I copy-typed from later.
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by ClintHardware » 31 Dec 2020 10:22

Sorry, file-upload.net isn't working for some reason.
If someone else has the T315 Roll 655 then its 0325.jpg - 0338.jpg that I would have displayed here.
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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by Urmel » 31 Dec 2020 15:01

665?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: DAK Order of Battle from 15. Panzer Division KTB

Post by ClintHardware » 02 Jan 2021 08:03

Hi Urmel

Yes T315 Roll 665 - sorry.
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