Sicily evacuation - why did the Allies fail to stop it?

[daveh]

As the Allies pressed into the north east corner of Sicily , the Axis forces were able to withdraw troops and equipment.

Suggested figures:

German up to 40 000 men, 9 600 vehicles, 47 tanks, 94 artillery pieces, up to 17 000 tons of supplies incl ammunition and fuel.

Italians: c 62 000 men, 227 vehicles, 41 guns

(from The War against Hitler ed A A Nofi)

Given the general Allied air superiority and overwhelming naval strength how was this achieved?

[Incorporeal One]

The Germans used very effectively the natural barrier of the Nebrodi mountains and Mount Etna in order to control where exactly the Allies had to advance. The Allies had only very narrow corridors to move in and the Germans knew exactly where the advance would be. Thus they could have their units in perfect position to repel an attack, thus a well placed German unit could successfully defend an area against a much stronger Allied force. Also, we all know Monty's propensity to be careful and perhaps he was a little too careful in this case. Also about Allied airpower, you merely need a map of the Med to realize that the Germans and Italians had planes based very near to the battlefield at very well prepared aerodromes whereas outside of Malta the Allies had underdeveloped fields that were relatively far away and thus they couldn't utilize this fully.

[DrG]

Also about Allied airpower, you merely need a map of the Med to realize that the Germans and Italians had planes based very near to the battlefield at very well prepared aerodromes whereas outside of Malta the Allies had underdeveloped fields that were relatively far away and thus they couldn't utilize this fully.

While I agree with your analisys of the skillfull use of terrain by the Axis forces, I don't think the Allies had problems in keeping the air superiority already gained shortly before (or, at best, at the beginning of) Op. Husky.
In "Storia militare" n.127 apr.2004 there is an excellent article by Tullio Marcon about the Allied air forces in Sicily in 1943 ("L'aviazione alleata in Sicilia") that describes the efficent system of airport created or re-activated by the Allies shortly after the landing.

[David Thompson]

daveh -- You asked:

Given the general Allied air superiority and overwhelming naval strength how was this achieved?

Allowing the evacuation of Sicily is generally considered to have been an allied blunder, which the Germans skillfully and speedily exploited.

[Robdutch]

The allies also didn't really know wat they wanted to do in Italy. The British wanted to invade Italy while the Americans wanted to invade France with all the possible force. They did not want to lose units to a secundairy theater. As a result the orders given to the allied army invading Sicilie was unclear about any German retreat.

Rob

[Achtacht]

daveh,
New to the forum,

The Straights of Messina during the evacuation was the most heavly defended area in occupied Europe at the time, with both sides of the straights in Sicily and Italy with anti aircraft and floating Flack Battries in the Straight themselves and the evacuation Barges fitted with ack ack guns also, making the Straights not a pleasent place to be for allied aircraft.

Also on the ground the axis forces, dispite all the efforts of the allies, could control the withdrawl at their choosing, interesting that 65,000 axis troops could keep 450,000 allied troops at a distance from Messina until they had evacuated as much as they could.

This type of defensive fighting would come to fruition in Italy also, and even surprised the Germans on how they could control a battle field in Italy at mainly their leasure? and the Allies would findout to their frustrations, until 11th and 23rd May 1944.

Hope this Helps

Andy
http://www.axis42.co.uk

[daveh]

Given the extensive AA defences I can see the problems of air attacks.

What stopped naval units interfereing? I understand many of the ferries sailed in daytime. While the Messina straits are narrow surely naval units could have shelled AA batteries, attacked ferry ports and landing stages and stopped, or at least limited, day time sailings.

[tigersqn]

Without a direct Allied Naval interdiction of the Messina Straits, the only other possible way to have stopped an Axis evacuation of Sicily was to have landed at Reggio on July 9. All Axis troops would have been trapped on the island and ripe for the picking.
But of course an invasion of Italy proper had never been approved at the Casablanca Conference.

[Karri]

What stopped naval units interfereing? I understand many of the ferries sailed in daytime. While the Messina straits are narrow surely naval units could have shelled AA batteries, attacked ferry ports and landing stages and stopped, or at least limited, day time sailings.

My guess would be axis naval and air units.

[DrG]

As pointed out by Karri, Axis air and naval forces (we shall remember that the Regia Marina base of Taranto is just a dozens of miles to the east of Messina) were a very good reason to avoid surface attacks in the Strait of Messina. I would add also coastal batteries.
By the way, a night raid in the Strait was made by 4 British MTB on 17 July 1943, but one was sunk and another damaged by the CL Scipione Africano (equipped with the E.C.3ter Gufo radar). For further details: http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discu ... ic&index=8.

About a landing in Calabria already in July, it wasn't feasible for the following reasons:
- lack of air cover: it is too far from Malta (not to talk about Tunisia and Pantelleria)
- it would have been too exposed to a sortie of the Italian battleships of Taranto
- the supplies route would have been unsecure, and the lack of ports would have been a problem to keep the land forces supplied.

[JeffreyF]

By the way, a night raid in the Strait was made by 4 British MTB on 17 July 1943, but one was sunk and another damaged by the CL Scipione Africano (equipped with the E.C.3ter Gufo radar). For further details: http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discu ... ic&index=8.

To digress a little bit I've seen this story come up several times in the last year or so. Is there a new book that covers this that might be purchased? My Italian is good enough to read a book in Italian if that is the case, albeit rather slowly.

The version that sticks in my mind is this.
Italian claim: 3 British motor torpedo boats sunk.
British as you stated. However I recall someone saying the MTBs listed by the Brits as lost/damaged were not in the theatre or something similarly wierd. I think this was covered in the warships1.com forum conversation that you linked to which does not appear to be available.

Another place I've seen this story pop up is here. Thanks for any information.

[RichTO90]

The version that sticks in my mind is this.
Italian claim: 3 British motor torpedo boats sunk.
British as you stated. However I recall someone saying the MTBs listed by the Brits as lost/damaged were not in the theatre or something similarly wierd. I think this was covered in the warships1.com forum conversation that you linked to which does not appear to be available.

As recorded by the Admiralty, the loss was MTB No. 316, torpedoed by an Italian cruiser off of Reggio. A number of others were also lost, a different dates, but mostly by shore gunfire.

[DrG]

JeffreyF, it's truly sad that the Warships1 forum doesn't keep old threads. The story of MTB in the Ionian Sea in 1943 should be in Tullio Marcon, "Motosiluranti nello Jonio", Storia Militare n.82, lug. 2000. I haven't that number of Storia Militare (you can buy it from its publisher: Tuttostoria. I've asked a friend of mine if that's the article (he shold have that number of Storia Militare).

RichTO90, yes it was the MTB 316, but it was hit by gunfire, not by torpedoes.
A few details about it from http://www.navy.mil.nz/rnzn/article.cfm?Article_ID=1605:

Many Kiwis were in the fast Motor Torpedo Boats (MTBs) and Motor Gun Boats (MGBs) of Coastal Forces. During Husky they were tasked with entering the narrow Straits of Messina, to cut off German reinforcements. LT E H Lassen (Oxford) commanded MTB 404 in fast moving night encounters with E-boats, he was awarded a DSC for his efforts during Husky. LT Newell (Napier) while in command of MTB 315 attacked an Italian warship one night; their sister boat MTB 316 was hit and sunk with all hands, but 315's torpedoes missed.

Data about the evacuation of Sicily from Alberto Santoni, "Dalla Sicilia al Continente", Storia Militare n.100, gen. 2002 (prof. Santoni has written the official history of the Campaing of Sicily for the USSME):
- Between 29 July and 17 Aug. 1943 the airplanes of the Mediterranean Air Command made 27,626 missions, with an averge of 1,454 airplanes every day. They shot down 216 German airplanes and 9 Italian airplanes (the Regia Aeronautica was already pratically annihilated), losing about 200 airplanes (not only over Sicily, thus including, for example, also the 59 lost on Ploesti on 1st Aug.).
- Between 8 and 17 Aug. 1943 2,912 Allied airplanes attacked German transport boats in the Strait of Messina.
- This huge air superiority was contrasted, on the Strait of Messina, by 235 Flak guns (commanded by Gen. Baade).
- The Germans used 140 boats, sailing along 12 different routes in the Strait.
- Between 14 Aug. and 6:35am of 17 Aug. they transported (with 4,700 trips) 39,569 soliders (included 4,444 wounded), 9,605 vehicles, 47 tanks, 94 guns, 1,100 t of ammo, 970 t of fuel, 15,700 t of other materiels.
- During operation "Lehrgang" the Germans lost only 13 boats.
- Since 15 July 1943 the Germans had already transported to Italy 13,500 sick and wounded German soldiers.
- Since 3 Aug. 62,000 Italian soldiers, 45 guns, 227 vehicles and 12 mules were transported to Italy.
- Before 3 Aug. 32,500 Italian soldiers had already been evacuated.
- During the Sicilian Campaign the Axis employed about 320,000 soldiers (of them 254,431 in fighting duties), 147,569 were evacuated.
- The Axis lost during the Sicilian Campaign: KIA: 4,678 Italians, 4,323 Germans; MIA: 36,072 Italians, 4,593 Germans; POW: 116,681 Italians, 5,523 Germans.
- The Allies lost: KIA: 2,237 Americans, 2,062 Britons; wounded: 13,083 total.

[Musashi]

Since 15 July 1943 the Germans had already transported to Italy 13,500 sick and wounded German soldiers.

Gracias, DrG. I also track this topic, albeit I have't written anything, yet.
However I suppose you should replace SINCE with BY. Its not English lesson and I am not going to upset you, but SINCE is not understable in these sentences.
Con molta stima,
Chris

[DrG]

Gracias, DrG. I also track this topic, albeit I have't written anything, yet.
However I suppose you should replace SINCE with BY. Its not English lesson and I am not going to upset you, but SINCE is not understable in these sentences.
Con molta stima,
Chris

Thank you for you compliments. Grazie per i complimenti.
Probably I wasn't very clear, I explain in a better way: the Germans transported 13,500 sick and wounded soldiers since 15 July untill 13 Aug., then (14-17 Aug.) the rest of their soldiers (39,569 men).
To summarize:
- 15 July / 13 Aug.: 13,500 men
- 14 Aug. / 17 Aug.: 39,569 men.