How many divisions did Rommel have?

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Shc
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How many divisions did Rommel have?

Post by Shc » 20 Sep 2004 21:26

Just wondering.. I've always heard Rommel didn't have any "reinforcements" coming in North Africa but how bad was it?

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D. von Staberg
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Post by D. von Staberg » 21 Sep 2004 17:58

When?
For example on the 15th of august 1942 Rommel had the following divisions/units under his command:
German:
15th Panzer Division
21st Panzer Division
90th Light Division
164th Light Division
Parachute Brigade "Ramcke"

Italian:
Ariete Armoured Division
Littorio Armoured Division
Trieste Motorised Division
Folgore Parachute Division
Bolonga Infantry Division
Trento Infantry Division
Brescia Infantry Division
Pavia Infantry Division

There were also numerous supporting units of battalion and company size attached at army and corps level.

Regards
Daniel

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 22 Sep 2004 16:38

Unless Germany chnaged its strategic thinking, then Rommel would never recieve enough divisions to seriously challenge the Allies in North Africa.

Rommels main problem was his logistic chain. Though he compalined about the Italians, the Italians succedded in delivering a very high % (85+) of the men & materials sent. The main problem was the relative poor capacity of the ports and the long distances from these ports to the front line, which caused large quantities to be used in transportation etc

Abu El Banat

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Post by Nucleicacidman » 25 Sep 2004 01:45

I believe that would have Rommel had the green light to wipe out Malta, at no matter what the cost, the ample amount of logistical support would have arrived from Europe to allow him to completely destroy the Eigth Army in North Africa.

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 25 Sep 2004 13:44

Nucleicacidman wrote:
I believe that would have Rommel had the green light to wipe out Malta, at no matter what the cost, the ample amount of logistical support would have arrived from Europe to allow him to completely destroy the Eigth Army in North Africa.
I don't follow your logic. I've already stated that 85%+ of the men & materials sent to North Africa arrived. Even without Malta, some supplies would have still been lost from submarines etc.

You may well argue that the extra say 5-10% of supplies reaching Rommel could have been enough to turn the battle. Well the flipside of this, is that with the British would no longer have to support Malta, and thus these supplies would be feed into the 8th Army etc.

Everyone thinks that once Rommel reached the Suez the British would simply fold. Britain had more than ample resources within the area to regroup and force Rommel back, be it from the Levant or SE Africa.

Given Germany's strategic stance, the best Rommel could have hoped for was a strategic draw in the short term, and a long defensive campaign in the long term.

Andy H
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Christian W.
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Post by Christian W. » 25 Sep 2004 14:31

And what was his strenght in 1941? :?
Last edited by Christian W. on 25 Sep 2004 16:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jon G. » 25 Sep 2004 15:01

Nucleicacidman wrote:I believe that would have Rommel had the green light to wipe out Malta,
Actually, he did. He instead persuaded Kesselring his immediate superior and in turn also Hitler that they should instead allow him to press on with his 1942 advance to the wire and further, Rommel hoped, to the Nile.
at no matter what the cost, the ample amount of logistical support would have arrived from Europe to allow him to completely destroy the Eigth Army in North Africa.
There was plenty of logistical support at Tripolis, a mere 1200 miles away from El Alamein :) J. F. C. Fuller IIRC estimated that if Rommel had been 50% stronger in 1942, he would have made it all the way to Alexandria. Not that I agree with this assessment.

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Post by Polynikes » 26 Sep 2004 16:10

Nucleicacidman

...the ample amount of logistical support...allow him to completely destroy the Eigth Army in North Africa.

Except that the 8th Army would not have granted him such generous allowances.

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Post by Fubbik » 30 Nov 2004 19:00

He also had the division Pistoia.

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David W
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Post by David W » 03 Dec 2004 00:35

Only just!!

They (Pistoia) did not arrive in N. Africa until August '42.

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 06 Dec 2004 18:22

David W wrote:Only just!!

They (Pistoia) did not arrive in N. Africa until August '42.
and in November was still in Cyrenaica off Rommel's command

The divisions under Rommel's command at 2nd Alamein were the just listed ones

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David W
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Post by David W » 06 Dec 2004 20:19

Good info Lupo.

Presumably Rommel was only C.I.C Egypt.

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 07 Dec 2004 14:07

to be correct he was commander of PanzerArmee Afrika/ACIT (to use either german/italian definition) with responsabilities on the frontline and immediate rear but the rest was under North Africa Upper Command at Tripoli

bye

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BoroXXX
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Post by BoroXXX » 19 Dec 2004 16:33

DAK since II/14/1941 up to Jan,1942:
15th Panzer Division ,
5th light division and
supporting units

DAK, Jan 42-Alamein:
15th Pz div.
21st Pz.div, 5th light div. was reinforced up to a strength of a "real" Pz div. and renamed
90.light div., created by reorganisation of large number of smaller inf. units, strong in arty and mobile infantry, but without tanks
"Ramcke's" brigade
164th light div.

DAK in Tripolis-Tunisia period:
15.Pz div
90.light div.
164.light div.
FJ brigade "Ramcke"

last charge of DAK, KG "Irkens":
5.Pz reg., before part of 5.th light and 21.Pz
8.Pz reg., earlier in 15.Pz
7.Pz reg., earlier in 10.Pz div.
2.battalion of 47. grenadier reg.
2 platoons from "Army Group C-i-C escort"
one ATG detachement
2 detachements of 88s
several Italian tanks, assault guns and armoured cars


Italian army:
Ariete Armoured Division
Littorio Armoured Division
Trieste Motorised Division
Folgore Parachute Division since Alamein
Bolonga Infantry Division
Trento Infantry Division
Brescia Infantry Division
Pavia Infantry Division

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Alter Mann
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Rommel's Chances

Post by Alter Mann » 25 Dec 2004 15:28

Andy, I'm getting irked by the continued insistence that Rommel's supply problems were imagined. Please set me straight. What sources should I look at?

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