Pictures from Yugoslavia 1941-1945: take a look!

Ivan Ž. · Post by **Ivan Ž.** » 20 Oct 2005 01:16

Otto Kumm denies any war crimes by "Prinz Eugen" in his history of this division.
He has mentioned just one example in which one small group of P.E. men
was involved in a war crime.

Here's one photo of P.E. men in front of a burning house (around May 1943),
but I don't think that counts as a war crime (- destroying enemy houses).

(photo-source: P.E.History by Otto Kumm)

/Ivan

Zlatni ljiljan · Post by **Zlatni ljiljan** » 20 Oct 2005 01:34

rommel_gaj wrote:Can you confirm it was taken in Tuzla? Building ID?

I think it was. These soldiers are from Fischer Kampfgruppe, I guess. It’s hard to recognize buildings in Tuzla, this city has a large problem with "sinking" caused by salt-exploitation. So, many buildings were demolished after 1945. This building looks like city hall to me (Općina), but I’m not sure…

Thanks, Ivan, for that picture. Is there any Handschar war-crimes photograph? They were wicked bastards, some photos must exist. I write some article on this issue and I would like to add at least one picture.

And destroying enemy houses IS WAR CRIME - "Enemies" in most of cases were just ordinary peasants.

Regards,

Ivan Ž. · Post by **Ivan Ž.** » 20 Oct 2005 01:44

Zlatni ljiljan wrote:Is there any Handschar war-crimes photograph? They were wicked bastards, some photos must exist. I write some article on this issue and I would like to add at least one picture.

And destroying enemy houses IS WAR CRIME - "Enemies" in most of cases were just ordinary peasants.

Yes, I know, but they could always say it was an enemy /enemy supporter's house (I'm not defending them for sure).

I've never seen any war crime photo done by Waffen-SS men in Yugoslavia,
accept those done by "Karstjäger" men, which we all have discussed before here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 81&start=0
...and photos can be seen here (warning: cutting heads off)
http://muceniskapot.nuovaalabarda.org/g ... slo-11.php
On the other hand, I've seen a lot of executions done by Heer soldiers
- hanging, shooting, hanging again... (this was definitely their favorite).
There's a photo of German motorcyclist watching a tree with hanged Serbs
with his hand-written caption "bloomed tree in Serbia".

Cheers,
Ivan

Ivan Ž. · Post by **Ivan Ž.** » 20 Oct 2005 02:19

Btw, another ugly photo (head's off again) from Yugoslavia, 1942.
- ustaša holding četnik's head
http://sokolac.slavicnet.com/sokolac/so ... roats2.jpg
I've seen this photo in one communist book where was claimed that
this ustaša is holding partisan's head. What a stupidity!
Kokarda and bearded face - clearly četnik...

/Ivan

Zlatni ljiljan · Post by **Zlatni ljiljan** » 20 Oct 2005 02:49

Ivanwss wrote:Btw, another ugly photo (head's off again) from Yugoslavia, 1942.
- ustaša holding četnik's head
http://sokolac.slavicnet.com/sokolac/so ... roats2.jpg
I've seen this photo in one communist book where was claimed that
this ustaša is holding partisan's head. What a stupidity!
Kokarda and bearded face - clearly četnik...

/Ivan

Yeah, I know this picture, it appears in Bulatovic’s (or Bulajic’s?) book "Ustaški zločini genocida" (vol. 1) – title under the photo is: "Ustasha with head of his victim, Eastern Bosnia 1943." Some Serbian web-sites (high nationalistic provenience) claims that this head belonged to M. Đurišić, but I doubt. But, who knows? In this condition, it would be hard to recognize him.

There are also a lot of other Ustasha war-crimes pictures and Chetniks as well.

Cheers,

~ Dino.

Ivan Ž. · Post by **Ivan Ž.** » 20 Oct 2005 10:18

Zlatni ljiljan wrote:There are also a lot of other Ustasha war-crimes pictures and Chetniks as well.

Yes, too much.

Ustaša & četnik head photo:
I believe you meant Pavle Đurišić (killed by ustašas), right ?
Not him - for sure.
Also, photo was taken in 1942-43 and he was murdered in 1944, I think.

Well, the point is that almost every unit commited war crimes in Yugoslavia:
Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Soviets, ustašas, četniks, partisans...
Nazis, fascists, communists, royalists, christians (orthodox and catholics), muslims, atheists...
and there are numerous photos of many of their crimes.
Cutting throats, heads, arms and legs, penises, killing babies, raping and slaughtering women,
hanging, shooting, burning, sawing bodies in half, pulling eyes out, etc, etc, etc...
...the sad thing is that mostly innocent civilians were killed, and not soldiers...
Every peasant was afraid of a man in any uniform...

Cheers,
Ivan

Ivan Ž. · Post by **Ivan Ž.** » 20 Oct 2005 11:23

streljko1 · Post by **streljko1** » 20 Oct 2005 12:35

Great photos, I like the most those of german motorised column on move in winter, on the picture from Tuzla I noticed that windows on the first floor were fortified, so was that building important,like town command or...)?

Photo of partisan boat was taken in Trogir, after fall of Italy, or after city`s final liberation in 1944. In front of old fort italians shot group of patriots in 1941.
.
About war crimes of PE, here is good example: massacre at Donji dolac, 25.03.1944, during operation against Mosor partisan detachment, near the village of Donji dolac partisans attacked unit of PE, and retreated, soon after that germans entered the nearby village, ordered all peasants to gather in two bigger houses because "each peasant would get pass for free travel" and when they gathered soldiers opened fire, in the massacre 272 people, including 103 children, were killed.
http://arhiv.slobodnadalmacija.hr/20040 ... cija01.asp

During that operation more than 800 people were killed.

Tactic to attract people with such innocent words like: "each peasant would get pass for free travel", "our officer will speak, so you must come" was used many times by PE soldiers, unfortunately with succes, and if peasants didn`t belive in nice words, and escape in the hills, village was temporaly abandoned, and after few hours again attacked (Žeževica massacre).
After that crimes NDH authorities protested to Phelps(most of the victims were croats).
Interesting is also that many surivors belive that četniks in german uniforms attacked their village, that is because many volksdeutsche in division spoke our language( with serbian accent).

Also, about the picture " Njemacki top u sumi-snijeg" what kind of gun/mortar is it, I have seen picture of partisans with likewise weapon in Biokovo mountains in 1942(very blurry one).

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 20 Oct 2005 12:50

Ivanwss wrote:Here's one photo of P.E. men in front of a burning house (around May 1943),

Sources, please.

streljko1 · Post by **streljko1** » 20 Oct 2005 12:53

Here are some photos, from this forum and internet.

German and italian soldier on guard:

Partisans during training, I guess:

I had doubts about posting this photo of french german tanks because some sources put it in Italy, but anyway:

G. Trifkovic · Post by **G. Trifkovic** » 20 Oct 2005 13:39

Otto Kumm denies any war crimes by "Prinz Eugen" in his history of this division.
He has mentioned just one example in which one small group of P.E. men
was involved in a war crime.

Here's one photo of P.E. men in front of a burning house (around May 1943),
but I don't think that counts as a war crime (- destroying enemy houses).

Sure he denies-I haven't read the book,but I presume it's like Kaltenneger:"We tried to fight the wicked guerillas according to the Hague convention, but they started commiting such terrible crimes that there were some spontaneous outbursts of rage on our part..."

Prijatelji, join me on the following thread concerning PE and other german units' war-crimes in ex-Yu:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 303#787303

Pics follow,don't worry!

Zlatni ljiljan · Post by **Zlatni ljiljan** » 20 Oct 2005 14:07

Ivanwss wrote: Ustaša & četnik head photo:
I believe you meant Pavle Đurišić (killed by ustašas), right ?
Not him - for sure.
Also, photo was taken in 1942-43 and he was murdered in 1944, I think.

Yes, I meant P. Đurišić (not "M", my mistake).

He was killed by Ustashe in Banja Luka or Jasenovac. He cancelled his loyalty to General Draža Mihailović and went in north, towards Slovenian borders. But, Ustashe in Lijevce Polje beat his units. He was captured and later killed (on persuasion of his old rival Sekula Drljević).

Well, the point is that almost every unit commited war crimes in Yugoslavia:
Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Soviets, ustašas, četniks, partisans...
Nazis, fascists, communists, royalists, christians (orthodox and catholics), muslims, atheists...
and there are numerous photos of many of their crimes.
Cutting throats, heads, arms and legs, penises, killing babies, raping and slaughtering women,
hanging, shooting, burning, sawing bodies in half, pulling eyes out, etc, etc, etc...
...the sad thing is that mostly innocent civilians were killed, and not soldiers...
Every peasant was afraid of a man in any uniform...

I agree, but I think that proportions of those units who were in service of genocidal policy committed much more war-crimes in much larger proportions.

Zlatni ljiljan · Post by **Zlatni ljiljan** » 20 Oct 2005 14:09

streljko1 wrote:on the picture from Tuzla I noticed that windows on the first floor were fortified, so was that building important, like town command or...

Sure it was, Partisans used that building for their institutions (command or maybe NOO). And his is not city hall, I’m quite sure now.

And thanks for link (Slobodna Dalmacija).

Unfortunately, cases like these were common and usual for Germans in Yugoslavia and especially for Waffen-SS. Handschar Division committed similar atrocities, but it never was such a large number of victims like in incidents near Sinj. Order of Field Marshall Maximillian von Weichs from April 6th 1944 prescribed so-called “liquidation in combat” for every suspect civilian and such atrocities became legal. This could be reason why Otto Kumm doesn’t mention it. In Sinj case, some Germans opened some investigation, but (predictable) nobody found guilty. I know for only one case in Bosnia when SS-commander was sentenced – case of village Kosutica, where one SS-Prinz Eugen machine-gun squad killed 69 men, women and children. All victims were Muslims; some of them were relatives and family members of men who served in 13th SS Division. The reason for this massacre was dead body of one German soldiers found near village. Arthur Phleps thought that soldiers did right thing, they only acted according to Hitler’s orders, etc, but his opinion didn’t help to suspected commander, SS-Ostuf. Karl Juels. Himmler personally was very furious and Juels was expelled from SS and sent in prison (for 8 years).

Ivan forgot one link with pictures from Yugoslavia (Bosnia):
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=87865

I have added a few photos of Hadziefendic Legion.

Regards,

G. Trifkovic · Post by **G. Trifkovic** » 20 Oct 2005 14:49

Dino,

what do you say that we continue on this interesting topic in some other thread? BTW,can you give your source on the Jules and the killings?

Thanks,

Gaj

G. Trifkovic · Post by **G. Trifkovic** » 20 Oct 2005 15:48

Ivan,your patience has payed off:

1.) SD detail with dogs on the Vucevo plateau,mid-1943. (?);
2.) Lt.Col.Jack Churchill,as German prisoner on the island of Brac,June 1944.