Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

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David W
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by David W » 19 Feb 2016 20:57

Hi Jeff.

I'm sorry but I can't make head nor tail of that chart. I've even tried looking at the latter months in 1941 where I have Urmel's figures, but even that does not help, as they don't marry up.

Kind regards,
David.

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jwsleser
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by jwsleser » 19 Feb 2016 21:58

David

I am not sure what the problem is. Those charts are from the source he cites. Since I can't verify Andreas' numbers as they are copied, I don't know what to say.

Unless Andreas can offer an answer, the scans are from the 'horse's mouth'. I will check to see if there is some factor I have overlooked that Andreas incorporated into his numbers.

Pista! Jeff
battaglione Alpini sciatori Monte Cervino (Reenacted)
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Urmel
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Urmel » 19 Feb 2016 23:18

Hi Jeff

My calculations exclude civilian supplies, so they don't add up to the totals column in Dati Statistici. I just recalculated them to be sure.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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David W
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by David W » 19 Feb 2016 23:21

Jeff.

It's probably me.

Perhaps if you can just give me one figure, say May 1941, I should be able to work out the others from their respective locations within the chart.
I'm looking for tonnage supplied.
Thanks,
David.

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Urmel
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Urmel » 19 Feb 2016 23:34

May 41:

75,367 sent, 69,331 arrived total
Out of which:
8,576 civilian sent and arrived
24,294 German sent and arrived
1,658 Italian air force sent and arrived
7,223 Italian navy sent, 7,199 arrived
33,436 Italian army sent, 27,424 arrived
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Urmel
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Urmel » 19 Feb 2016 23:50

jwsleser wrote:Andreas
You need to keep in mind that the capacity of the harbour was only one factor.
True, but when you examine the entire supply issue, the issue of Malta as I outlined above was the critical factor. Everything else is solvable once Malta is resolved. The problem of Malta magnified the problems of fuel and trucks to greater extent than they actually were. These issues, already stretched, now had to compensate for the problem created by Malta. The effect was synergistic.

Don't forget that Greece and Russia soaked off a significant amount of material from A.S. Greece was particularly critical as the A.S. ports were vastly underutilized at a time when it was almost too easy to sail convoys.

Pista! Jeff
Yes. :)
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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David W
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by David W » 20 Feb 2016 08:17

Thanks Urmel, now I understand Jeff's chart.

Thanks again Jeff.

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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by jwsleser » 20 Feb 2016 14:17

Glad it will help.

Pista! Jeff
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David W
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by David W » 21 Feb 2016 18:09

Slightly off topic, so bear with me.

I'll post elsewhere if I don't get an answer.

Do we know approximate tonnages (or exact!) stockpiled in Libya by the Italians as at 10th June 1940, and stockpiled in Egypt by the British at the same date?

Thanks,
David.

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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by jwsleser » 22 Feb 2016 13:46

David

I have checked my sources. No real data on what supplies were on-hand. I have requests to make up shortages, but that data is in a requested/received format. No starting information except for military hardware.

Pista! Jeff
battaglione Alpini sciatori Monte Cervino (Reenacted)
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David W
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by David W » 22 Feb 2016 19:09

Thanks anyway Jeff.

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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Old_Fossil » 24 Feb 2016 00:21

Does anyone have a breakdown of what ships carried who when 5th Light Division and 15th Panzer Division were shipped to Tripoli from Feb to May 1941?
"If things were different, they wouldn't be the same."

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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by GeoffMNZ » 25 Aug 2016 00:33

My father was transported as a POW from Tripoli to Naples leaving 27th December 1941 on a German ship.
I have been directed to website "Seekrieg 1941, Dezember". On this site there is mention of a German transport ship 'Ankara' transporting 1,400 PoW's from Tripoli to Naples on the 30th December 1941 but no mention of the 27th. It also comments that smaller ships shuttled between Benghazi and Tripoli - could they also be carrying POW's?
Is there another information source for the names of the ships, convoy details etc used by the Italians & Germans to transport Allied POWs to Italy?
Thanks
Geoff

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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Urmel » 25 Aug 2016 10:02

Vettor-Pisani left Tripoli with British POW on 27 Dec 1941. The only ship to leave the harbour that day. Vettor Pisani was a modern fast merchant, launched in 1939, 6,339GRT. She was finally heavily damaged in an air attack in September 1942 off the Ionic islands, and scuttled in shallow water at Argostoli. She was eventually recovered after the war, re-entered service and was broken up in 1971.

http://www.archeologiaindustriale.it/se ... oto_id=838
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Urmel
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Re: Axis shipping in the Mediterranean

Post by Urmel » 25 Aug 2016 10:03

Old_Fossil wrote:Does anyone have a breakdown of what ships carried who when 5th Light Division and 15th Panzer Division were shipped to Tripoli from Feb to May 1941?
There is a whole thread here with the convoy information that I put into the forum. I can't remember the title now, maybe do a search for Sonnenblume under my user name.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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