Why was Gibraltar Never Taken?

[Jarkko Hietala]

Hitler did not do too much effort to capture Gibraltar because he thought War in Africa only to be distraction for Germany.

Hitler was preparing operation Barbarossa against Soviet’s and that was Hitler’s main operation and he knew that this operation would need every German resource. Germany believed that Russia is very weak because its army had been repelled by Finland in Winter War 1939-40 and German beleaved now would be perfect time to strike.

[Hop]

There is a huge oil refinery across the harbor from Gibraltar. Was it there during WWII?

According to http://www.apba.es/apbaing/Introducion/historia.htm the oil refinery was built around 1964, and the port was a small facility used for passenger traffic and fishing before then.

[cazna]

Big Orange, re read your post, often it is hard to make sence of your previous posts, but this time you have tried to re write history, the Axis nations NEVER DID OCCUPY or CAPTURE or INVADE Gibraltar. Leave the moonshine alone

[Qvist]

cazna,

No one has claimed that they did. Indeed, this whole discussion is devoted to why they didn't.

cheers

[Jon G.]

Conventional wisdom has that the Axis' opportunities were in the eastern Mediterranean, not the western end of that sea. Hitler also negotiated with Petain at Montoire in the autumn of 1940, with just as disappointing results as the Hendaye meeting with Franco. With Spain and Vichy France not committed to the Axis cause, just how would the Germans and Italians be able to take Gibraltar?

[fredleander]

Conventional wisdom has that the Axis' opportunities were in the eastern Mediterranean, not the western end of that sea. Hitler also negotiated with Petain at Montoire in the autumn of 1940, with just as disappointing results as the Hendaye meeting with Franco. With Spain and Vichy France not committed to the Axis cause, just how would the Germans and Italians be able to take Gibraltar?

Well, there might have been opportunities - history show they were not able to fulfill them. Till the summer of '41 Gibraltar was a very hyped-up base. With German air and army assets and the Italian navy it should be possible.

[Jon G.]

The loss of Gibraltar would have had serious implications for the Atlantic convoy routes, particularly the north-south route from Africa to Britain. However, despite Gibraltar being somewhat weakly equipped at the time the nearest Axis foothold in 1941 was Sardinia unless I overlooked something.

[fredleander]

The loss of Gibraltar would have had serious implications for the Atlantic convoy routes, particularly the north-south route from Africa to Britain. However, despite Gibraltar being somewhat weakly equipped at the time the nearest Axis foothold in 1941 was Sardinia unless I overlooked something.

I don't think you did.

[Jon G.]

Well, this is a pure opinion thread, and as such it can go in any direction. The German component of the North African campaign wasn't the largest, and from a German point of view the Mediterranean remained a sideshow, save possibly for a brief period April-May 1941. Most German offensive operations in the Mediterranean at that time were concentrated in the eastern part.

As long as we stay on a strictly speculative level, it's true that Gibraltar would have been a nice prize for the Axis to capture in 1941. If I recall correctly Mussolini had visions of Gibraltar as an international port after an Axis victory. Maybe that says something about the importance assigned to Gibraltar by the Axis. He had designs on many areas around the Mediterranean - Corsica, Nice and the French Riviera, Tunisia, parts of Greece etc. Franco in turn wanted parts of French Morocco whereas Vichy France, I think it is fair to say, wanted to preserve the status quo by not committing fully to the Axis cause.

It's only partially true that the Axis convoy route to Tunisia turned into an Allied shooting gallery thanks to the reinforcements Malta received in 1943. Some of the convoys for French North Africa went via Toulon and other French Mediterranean ports, thereby giving Malta a wide berth. The forward leap-frogging of Allied air bases in Tunisia was just as important.

[fredleander]

As long as we stay on a strictly speculative level, it's true that Gibraltar would have been a nice prize for the Axis to capture in 1941. If I recall correctly Mussolini had visions of Gibraltar as an international port after an Axis victory. Maybe that says something about the importance assigned to Gibraltar by the Axis. He had designs on many areas around the Mediterranean - Corsica, Nice and the French Riviera, Tunisia, parts of Greece etc. Franco in turn wanted parts of French Morocco whereas Vichy France, I think it is fair to say, wanted to preserve the status quo by not committing fully to the Axis cause.

To my knowledge Hitler would have gone forward with "Felix" if Franco had cooperated and allowed through-way for German troops. This operation was to be so heavy-handed and resource-demanding it shows that Hitler, too - put some importance on Gibraltar. I understand some sort of "mini"-Felix was also studied, not based on Franco cooperation.

[Jon G.]

Well, Hitler was in a more favourable position to launch Herkules/C3 against Malta, but for a variety of reasons that operation never got the go-ahead. It's of course a little unfair to say that Felix would have been cancelled too because it's all still speculative - but there was a noticeable difference between what Hitler said and what he actually did, to put it like that

Thanks *ahem* to the index I've compiled, it's quick and easy to find Gibraltar threads in this section:

Operation Felix:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=239
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16833

Why was Gibraltar never taken?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 14&start=0

Gibraltar defenses 1/1941
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55677

Maybe Weserübing is the best real (as opposed to just planned) German operation to compare to Felix?

[fredleander]

I think Franco knew that the British could take the Canary Islands if Spain would let the Germans take Gibraltar and this would be a high cost that only could be compensated with a high demand to Germany with new territory in North Africa and the help to change the poor situation of the country after the Civil War.

I think Franco would like to join the axis as at this stage of the war every thing suggested that they were going to win the IIWW.

I believe Hitler was playing with the idea of taking the Canaries before an eventual operation on Gibraltar.

[fredleander]

Well, Hitler was in a more favourable position to launch Herkules/C3 against Malta, but for a variety of reasons that operation never got the go-ahead. It's of course a little unfair to say that Felix would have been cancelled too because it's all still speculative - but there was a noticeable difference between what Hitler said and what he actually did, to put it like that

And well put!

It is a little funny - a scenario that never happened is often difficult to visualize. Since you mention it, if "Weserübung" had never happened - that would also have been hard to visualize - harder.

Hitler did go to see Franco - among other things to discuss a "Felix".

[fredleander]

The only realistic option for taking Gib was by a land assault from Spain.

I am not sure if I aggree with you on that one. Firstly, winter '41 Gibraltar was still a very hyped-up base. After the Franco/Hitler meeting in '40 work at improving the defenses was given high priority.

If you look at what resources were used to capture Eben Emael, with a personell strength of 1500 men, things get into perspective.

[Hop]

If you look at what resources were used to capture Eben Emael, with a personell strength of 1500 men, things get into perspective.

IIRC, Eben Emael wasn't captured until attacked and surrounded by the advancing German army. The glider troops attacked some of the gun positions with explosives, and captured some small areas, but the fortress didn't surrender until surrounded.

A comparable operation on Gib would require a followup German army, and unless they come by Spain, they can't come at all. Small numbers of gliders could be landed on the rock, but even that would be risky. A larger force could only be landed by sea, or travel overland.