How Important is Hitler in All of History?

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businessmouse
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How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by businessmouse » 09 Jul 2009 00:23

In my list he is #14 where would you put him on your list?

10. Augustus Caesar-Great Emperor of Rome
11. Genghis Khan-Conquered most of Asia
12. Napoleon Bonaparte- Conquered most of Europe
13. King David-Great leader of Israel
14. Adolf Hitler-Tried to conquer Europe/founded Nazis
15. Shaka Zulu-Revolutionized African warfare
16. Johannes Guttenberg-Invented the printing press
17. Saint Peter-Disciple of Jesus and first Pope
18. Leonardo Da Vinci-Great Renaissance thinker and artist
19. Hannibal Barca-Lead the Carthaginians against Rome
20. Issac Newton-Discovered Laws of Physics and Gravity
You can see the full list at http://bussinessmouse.googlepages.com/history'stop100

Frankfurter
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Frankfurter » 09 Jul 2009 11:31

Such list is always subjective.
For instance I cant understand why Kind David is on that list, the king of a small country in the eastern Meditteranean 3000 years ago. There are approx. 1000 kings in history with his historical significance. Is it even proven he was a historical figure outside the bible?
Gutenberg (not Guttenberg, that´s the current ministic for economics in Germany) I would place higher. The invention of the printing press changed the world forever.
Gengis Khan may have been the conqueror of a huge (and largely empty) territory, but as a man of culture he was not very influential and did not leave much more behind than an inherent fear in the Europeans of a "dark danger from the east".
I also disagree with some names that are listed 1-9. Religion founders or phrophets which are not proven historical figures like Abraham or Moses should not feature there. And as much as I know there was no person called Shinto (even if, as a national religion its of limited importance, certainly not a name to be paced among the top 20), also not man called Hindu.
Alexander the Great should come behind Augustus. Alexander founded a weak Empire that fell apart the day after his death, Augustus (ok, not alone) founded the Roman Empire as such which lasted hundreds of years and influenced the world forever.
Constantin must be placed higher - he made Christianity the state religion and enabled it to become a world religion.
Similar has to be said about Confucius.

That Hiter is somewhere up there I think is right, if no.14 or no.19 doesnt matter. He waged the worst war in history, won and lost the largest battles, inflicted the highest number of deaths and redefined the meaning of crime. Enough to make him one of the most significant figures in history.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by phylo_roadking » 09 Jul 2009 12:37

That list is risable :D It seems to have been drawn up by someone with absolutely NO grasp of history of historical trends. Businessmouse, you're either a commercial spammer....or about fourteen years old.
Genghis Khan-Conquered most of Asia
Frankfurther - G-K DID leave one lasting legacy; the system of movement control and government the Golden Horde imposed on a conquered people last many hundreds of years in Russia - right up to being incorporated into Communist Russia.
15. Shaka Zulu-Revolutionized African warfare
...and in the end had absolutely NO longterm impact on world or even Africa history except one decent war film.
19. Hannibal Barca-Lead the Carthaginians against Rome
Another "footnote" - he LOST. Arguably it was the defeat and need to defeat the Carthaginians that catapaulted Rome out o the italian Peninsula onto the Ancient World stage - but it just meant that happened BEFORE they met the renascent Macedonia or some other Eastern Med power coming the other way over the Tyrol.
20. Issac Newton-Discovered Laws of Physics and Gravity
Pardon me....but weren't they there to BE discovered by somebody??? Apples didn't suddenly stop dropping UPWARDS and start dropping downwards on the day of Isaac's picnic...
21. Charlemagne-United Medieval Europe
...and it promptly disintegrated again on his death. Charlemagne was a failure; he failed to reform or change the remains of the Frankish ideas on the continuity of government and rule, and so the empire he created was split along traditional Frankish tribal lines between his three sons, none of whom was a patch on their father.
23. Marco Polo-Explored Asia
....for exactly and only as far as he could see to either side of his line of travel! :lol:
27. St. Paul-Wrote a lot of the bible
Exactly HOW much???? 8O
29. Christopher Columbus-Discovered the New World
...John Cabot...St Brendan...even one POPE wrote that he FLEW there in his early days as a black magician...in about 900AD!
30. Albert Einstein-Made many physics advances
Er....that's as much of an UNDERstatement as some of the above are overstatements!
33. James Watt-Made the first steam engine
No, he built the world's first practical steam reciprocating engine; the inventor of the first steam engine was Hero of Alexandria.
36. Aristotle-Famous Greek philosopher
One among many.
40. William the Conqueror- Conquered England
One of many - and he regarded it not as a sparate entity but merely an adjunct to the family holdings in Normandy.
42. Joseph Stalin-Leader of early communist Russia
Ahem...
44. William Shakespeare-Greatly progressed the English language
...and wrote some plays that have been used to torture schoolchildren ever since...
45. Charles Darwin- Made the idea of Evolution
See comments on Isaac Newton; IF Darwin is right....NOONE "made" Evolution, it's been happening for some considerable time on its own...
50. Achilles-Best Greek warrior
...in a tiny action in the corner of one nation. And arguably one unnamed-to-posterity archer was bettter than him...
52. Copernicus-Discovered planetary locations
There's a small possibility they were there BEFORE he worked them out...
65. Orville and Wilbur Wright-Invented the airplane
The ghost of Otto Lillientahl with haunt you for all time for saying that!
79. Abraham Lincoln-Great American president who freed the slaves
...a minor footnote to a rather tasteless and major war that was going on at the time...
80. Leonidas-Lead the Spartans to victory against the Persians
Pardon me - but the LAST time I looked, Leonidas led the Spartans into a dead-end holding action and was severely killed as a result. Along with all his men. And the Persians still temporarily conquered most of Greece.
81. Ptolemy-Set ground for the Greek Egypt
"You greedy b@tards! I'm having THIS bit..."
88. Queen Isabella-Lead Spain and sent Columbus to America
She DID have a husband, you know....
92. James Cook-Great explorer of the Pacific
"I'll name this place after...oh God, I've done this SO many times, I don't know...after what I've got in my hand? I name this place the sandwich....AAARGH!"
98. William Harvey-Doctor who described circulatory system in detail
"Nurse, put your finger just THERE while I find a pen...OH GOD, I meant press harder than THAT!!!!"
100. King Arthur-Fought against British Invasion during medieval times
Er....he fought FOR the British...if he existed at all...

But the VERY best of all, and this one is just incredible...
64. John Lenin-Helped progress the ideas of communism
"...All we are say-ing....is give Communism a chance....."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by South » 09 Jul 2009 15:42

Good morning Business Mouse,

Napolean's fame and importance has less to do with European military campaigns.....there were many prior and after.....but rather relating to something involving government and politics.

King David is less famous for being a great King of Israel (and Judah) than for uniting the 12 tribes.

I believe the Chinese invested the printing press. Gutenberg invented movable type.

Are you saying Peter was more famous than Paul I ?

You assign no fame to Sun Yet Sen who made a change in the Middle Kingdom ?

On my list I have Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Karl Marx, and Albert Einstein for being the greatest influence on history for the 100 years up to WWII.


Warm regards,

Bob

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by South » 09 Jul 2009 15:49

Good morning Frankfurter,

It's not proof of his existence but some years ago "Biblical Archeology Magazine" had a small entry about an excavated seal fragment that referenced King David.

Just spent a half hour looking for the entry; if I find it, will post here.


Warm regards,

Bob

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phylo_roadking
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by phylo_roadking » 09 Jul 2009 17:00

Aww Bob - not even John Lenin on your list? Singer/songwriter responsible for such greats as -

1. "All you need is Marx"
2. "Back in the USSR"
3. "Do you want to know a Secret"
4. "Drive my Lada"
5. "Got to get you into my Lubyanka"
6. "Hey Josef"
7. "I feel fine - if the emotions of the individual weren't frowned on by the Party"
8. "I saw her standing there...okay? Is that what you wanted me to say?"
9. "Vladi I. Lenine"
10. "Twist and shout" - see no.8 above
11. "You've got to hide your love away"

...and so many other Party favourites...

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Jurgen Wullenwever » 09 Jul 2009 18:31

phylo_roadking wrote: But the VERY best of all, and this one is just incredible...
64. John Lenin-Helped progress the ideas of communism
"...All we are say-ing....is give Communism a chance....."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
phylo_roadking wrote:Aww Bob - not even John Lenin on your list? Singer/songwriter responsible for such greats as -

1. "All you need is Marx"
2. "Back in the USSR"
3. "Do you want to know a Secret"
4. "Drive my Lada"
5. "Got to get you into my Lubyanka"
6. "Hey Josef"
7. "I feel fine - if the emotions of the individual weren't frowned on by the Party"
8. "I saw her standing there...okay? Is that what you wanted me to say?"
9. "Vladi I. Lenine"
10. "Twist and shout" - see no.8 above
11. "You've got to hide your love away"

...and so many other Party favourites...
"Working class hero" comes to mind, as well.

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Inselaffe
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Inselaffe » 09 Jul 2009 23:41

I think this http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Bolsheviks should make it all clear.

Cheers.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by phylo_roadking » 10 Jul 2009 00:20

Joseph "Ringo" Stalin, brother-cousin of SpongeBob SquarePants
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Peter K » 12 Jul 2009 00:57

15. Shaka Zulu-Revolutionized African warfare
Shaka Zulu on place 15? :lol:

Isandlwana must have been a great shock for British people if they place him so high. :wink:

By the way - is anyone of them more important than Shaka Zulu 8-) ?:

- Jan III Sobieski - saved Europe from the Ottoman Invasion in 1683.
- Jan Szczepanik, "Polish Edison" - dozens of important inventions (at least 50 inventions and at least 92 patents - 30 British, 22 German, 21 Austrian, 15 American and 4 Polish) and several hundreds of different technical solutions, pioneer of television*, pioneer of film and photography - he invented colorful movie and colorful photography, he has got outstanding achievements in improving weaving technologies and weaving machinery, his another invention, bulletproof material, turned out to be efficient and saved the life of Spanish king Alfonso XIII.
- Ignacy Łukasiewicz - he invented the way to refine kerosene from crude oil (1852), his invention of a kerosene lamp (1853) is considered as the starting point of modern oil industry, he built the first oil well (1854) and the first oil refinery (1856) - if not his achievements, we would have still used horse-drawn vehicles.
- Julian Leopold Ochorowicz - one of the most important pioneers of computers and television, in 1877 he formulated some epoch-making laws related to transmission of monochromatic motion pictures at long distances which were and still are indispensible during the process of producing computers and TV sets.
- Hugo Kołłątaj - he created the first Ministry of Education in world's history.
- Jacek Karpiński - created the first personal computer - K-202 - in years 1970 - 1973 (long before PC was invented - but he lived in communist Poland and they didn't allow him to start his own business - like Bill Gates did - because he was a former soldier of the Home Army during WW 2) - only 30 pieces of K-202 computers were produced.
- Steve Wozniak - Jacek Karpinski's personal computer was first, but Steve Wozniak (Polish-American) participated in creating Apple I, which was the first personal computer produced on a massive scale.
- Józef Tykociński - invented and produced the world's first sound movie, in which his wife was the main actress.
- Józef Kosacki - invented world's first mine detector, which helped the British in achieving victory during the second battle of El-Alamein and saved the lives of hundreds of thousands men since it was invented.
- Kazimierz Żegleń - invented the first modern and really working bulletproof vest.
- Maria Skłodowska-Curie - pioneer in the radioactivity research, the first two-time Nobel laureate in world's history, the only one ever in two different sciences and the first female professor at Sorbonne.
- Lech Wałęsa - the leader of "Solidarity", contribution of which in destroying Communism is outstanding.
- Ludwik Zamenhof - Polish-Jewish creator of Esperanto language.
- Kazimierz Siemienowicz - author of the book "Artis Magnae Artilleriae pars prima", which revolutionized artillery tactics, first European pioneer of rocketry.
- Casimir the Great - the greatest king of Poland, he doubled the number of cities in Poland, tripled the number of stone castles in Poland and increased incomes of the royal Treasury to great extent.

*According to Albert Abramson, "Electronic Motion Pictures. A history of the Television Camera", published in 1955 - Jan Szczepanik is among the first three most important pioneers of television.

- Otton III - Holy Roman Emperor, in fact he was the first person who devised the idea of European Union.

And finally one more:

- Henryk Magnuski - he invented walkie-talkie (probably even this makes him more important than Shaka :lol:).
Last edited by Peter K on 12 Jul 2009 01:24, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by phylo_roadking » 12 Jul 2009 01:15

- Otton III - Holy Roman Emperor, in fact he was the first person who devised the idea of European Union.
It's him! It's him! It's all HIS fault! :lol:

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Peter K » 12 Jul 2009 01:18

"Fault". :lol:

It depends on one's point of view. :D

Edit:

But I still think that certainly this woman had got the most outstanding achievements in world's history:

- Lucyna Ćwierczakiewiczowa (maiden name: von Bachman, if someone is not able to spell Ćwierczakiewiczowa) - author of the first Polish cookery book, she wrote six books in total - including the most interesting ones: "Nauka robienia kwiatów bez pomocy nauczyciela: z 239 rycinami" ("Lessons of making flowers without help of teacher: with 239 drawings" - 239 drawings, wow! :D) and a several hundreds pages long "Cokolwiek bądź chcesz wyczyścić, czyli Porządki domowe" ("Whatever at any rate you would like to clean, that is Household cleanings"). :lol:

In 1860 she also wrote "365 obiadów za pięć Złotych" ("365 dinners for 5 Zlotys") - this book was published in 20 different editions and in several languages (including Russian) 8O - she must have had more followers than Shaka:

http://histmag.org/?id=3092

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bf109 emil
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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by bf109 emil » 12 Jul 2009 06:11

Hitler is very important in History, nearly every nation was affected and changed by WW2
either- Politically, financially, socially, morally,racially
more so by this one man on Numerous nations but perhaps only a handful before him

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Karl » 12 Jul 2009 10:45

make or break (all up for discussion as the time line goes on I realize) doesn't matter?

what about intention?

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Re: How Important is Hitler in All of History?

Post by Inselaffe » 12 Jul 2009 11:48

These kinds of lists are a bit silly really aren't they? They make for fun arguments if people don't take them too seriously, but that's it. How can you realistically say wether a scientist is more important than a politician, a soldier than a philosopher etc. ? And over all history?

The only way to establish more meaningful 'lists', if we have to :lol: !, is to confine the lists to very specific types of achievements and areas. I guess that a list of the most significant, say physiscists, would be easier to agree on. Or not!Likewise, maybe cooks, we could try and place Ms Ćwierczakiewiczowa ( I cut and pasted that one) in the spectrum of historical cookery writers :lol: I love the title of the cleaning book BTW.

Cheers.

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