The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

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Mika68*
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mika68* » 02 Feb 2011 13:00

60 years or somewhat before SU archives are open to everybody.

Then You see, that Soviet and Finland had military co-operations during the Cold war.

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Baltasar
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Baltasar » 02 Feb 2011 13:31

Do the Finns not open their archives? Until that day, I'll have to consider your theory as just that, a theory.

Mika68*
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mika68* » 02 Feb 2011 14:22

If the Cold war had got to hot war, why Soviets had tolerated NATO-troops nearby Soviet Northern fleet, submarines and so on?
Naturally they want occupy Northern Norway (via Finland).

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Juha Tompuri » 02 Feb 2011 16:23

Mika68* wrote:On cold war, "yellows" were surely swedes and west.
You seem to have understood things wrong.
You possible mean the A2 yellow?
Mika68* wrote:Why not reds, greens or blacks but just yellows (as regarding our west neighbourland)?
Yellow just happened to have been traditionally the colour of the exercise enemy of Finnish Defence Forces.

http://nikita.letku.net/strategy/armies ... title.html

Regards, Juha

Mika68*
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mika68* » 02 Feb 2011 16:32

Thanks Juha,

now I understand why our exercise enemies were "yellows".

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Juha Tompuri » 02 Feb 2011 16:53

You're welcome

Regards, Juha

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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mark V » 02 Feb 2011 22:33

Vaeltaja wrote:For us the 'yellow' soldiers were usually described as carrying red stars in their uniforms... not very subtle way of saying who the 'yellow's were in the training exercises.


Yep.

The colouring of "adversary" in FDF as "yellow" is solely diplomatic/public relations necessity, the colour having been that from beginning IIRC. Everybody in right mind knew and know that our dear neighbour Sweden was not the adversary. Some, like Vaeltaja had it stated clearly to him during his service.

"reds" would had been poor name for enemy during training, for many reasons: foreign relations, internal politics, Civil War wounds...

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Peter H
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Peter H » 29 Mar 2011 06:51

An off topic rant by Mika68 has been removed.

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Hanski
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Hanski » 04 Jun 2011 09:01

The Soviet Union also made a constant cultural presence in Finland during the Cold War. Below is one of the last samples in this category.

This is the statue World Peace, donated to the City of Helsinki by the City of Moscow, by the sculptor Oleg Kiryukhin, unveiled on 14 January 1990 in Hakaniemi, Helsinki. Reciprocally, the City of Helsinki donated to the City of Moscow the statue Friendship of Nations by the sculptor Antti Neuvonen.

In 2008, the World Peace was voted both the third ugliest and also the third most loved statue in Helsinki by the readers of Finnish newspapers.
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Mark V
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mark V » 04 Jun 2011 18:12

Hanski wrote:The Soviet Union also made a constant cultural presence in Finland during the Cold War.


Finland was/is democracy, so there were also communist/leftist MPs, and they worked on their own agenda, so did right wing parties also. It is possible to argue that many leftist politicians went (also in this country) far beyond than the benefit of electorate and representing the Republic. That was not surprising, as the aims of communism went beyond national states. "Communism in one country" was only allowed to USSR themselves :lol: .

Finlandization is known term and there were more than grain of truth in that Finland went far to get along with Soviet Union, and build good relations with them. That was the public face.

Various ways of cultural exchange between Finland and USSR were the most visible illustrations of across the political spectrum aim to maintain good relations with USSR. Some decisionmakers did further it purely for benefit of Republic, and some for other reasons.

On the other hand, Finnish Government was never controlled by Communists, and there is no evidence that the armed forces in general worked much differently than previously, save Paris peace treaty arms limitations, banning of some volunteer organizations forced by Soviets, some officers trialed immediately after war with charges of hiding arms for "stay behind" operations, and the general "good day to you" hospitability to officer guests from eastern block on weekend trips to some FDF garrison town.

Finnish Army was never purged in true meaning of the word, ofcourse they had to adjust somewhat to political climate = mainly officers to shut up in public, and from 1944 army had to stay strictly in their role as nonpolitical arm of government for defence of nation, arm which has no power over police, judicial system and general running of society in peacetime. Some officers that could not fit to this rightfull role of defence forces were sidelined, or retired.

So, the Armed Forces were run during Cold War by the very same officers that had fought in its ranks as young officers during long war years.

This legacy is still living, it is almost impossible to extract anything interesting from any FDF officer in media :D


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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Vaeltaja » 04 Jun 2011 18:45

Well... military not being allowed to participate in politics was set in a law. Set already in pre war laws. Officer could however be a minister as being that particular job does not require the person to be a member of a political party.

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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mark V » 04 Jun 2011 19:00

Vaeltaja wrote:Well... military not being allowed to participate in politics was set in a law. Set already in pre war laws. Officer could however be a minister as being that particular job does not require the person to be a member of a political party.


That is true, but after wars, non what so ever "hopping over the fence" was allowed.

It was strictly shut up - and do your job. And the great majority of politicians accepted what the job of Army was. They just wanted it done under the wraps, and not mess with foreign relations and internal politics.

Politicians also knew that it was ugly job that thankfully someone elses career was aimed for, as Finland prepared/trained/equipped during Cold War to bloody job of resisting full scale land assault by USSR - dying, but extracting such toll / time loss, that there would be reservations to do it by USSR, as with all propability war against Finland would happen simultaneously with larger European/Global war. It was our only card to play. And not good one. But what was the alternative ?? - surrender by default or rely on the good will of great powers ?? - naah - not good idea - Stalin famously asked how many divisions Pope has :D and that summs it up perfectly.

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Soviet interceptor technology upgraded

Postby Hanski » 13 Sep 2011 17:18

The highest level of Soviet military aviation technology that was used by the Finnish Air Force was the MiG-21bis, an all-weather interceptor that the Finns fitted with Western avionics.

This aircraft was on the static display of the Midnight Sun Airshow at Kauhava on 26 June 2011, like a ghost of the Cold War, with mist rising on the Ostrobothnian plains and the midnight sun glowing red in the background.
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Vaeltaja
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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Vaeltaja » 29 Sep 2011 13:59

One of which will soon decorate the roof of the megastore of Verkkokauppa.com (computer & electronics retailer) chain in Jätkäsaari, Helsinki. Fitting end. From tool of socialism to a tool of capitalism.

EDIT: Of the actual plane type - one of the pilot when asked of the 'gliding qualities' of type told in quite clear manner... 'even a brick will fly with big enough engine...'

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Re: The Finnish-Soviet relations during the Cold War

Postby Mark V » 01 Oct 2011 19:54

Vaeltaja wrote:EDIT: Of the actual plane type - one of the pilot when asked of the 'gliding qualities' of type told in quite clear manner... 'even a brick will fly with big enough engine...'


Mig-21 was/is an ac designed almost solely as an light, theater level interceptor, and it was designed at time when air combat was predicted to happen at high altitude. Meaning, get up into altitude, and get there fast. Other flying qualities did not matter much, and targets were like B-47s and British V-Bombers over Central Europe.

Light brick with an powerfull engine and couple missiles will do the design criteria perfectly.

In actual service the type was expected to fill roles that its designers had never predicted. It was THE one lightweight, cheapish fighter in Soviet inventory, and ended to equip everyone that had something to do with USSR commercially/ideologically.


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