news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 06:36

Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 04:58
Cult Icon wrote:
22 Sep 2022 13:05

A consideration is whether or not they received American help, like employing professional social media marketing specialists- who typically have skills in graphic design and know how to work social media towards their end goals. There are numerous Ukrainian propaganda accounts and personalities on social media now that are viral. They are effectively opinion leaders that control the thinking of millions. Oryx from what I've seen is not that aggressive compared to the others, they may be just 'useful idiots' that received a mixture of thousands of real and fraudulent photographs.
There are almost 1200 tank pictures under the RU loss section, which is plenty for you to examine. Care to tell us which are frauds ?

Mad Dog
Care to prove us which are genuine ?
Photos with as source a propaganda service must be considered as fraud,til they are proved to be real .
The photo of the dancing Hitler at the news of the French asking for an armistice ( the Hitler jig ) was also fabricated by the British propaganda service ,as was the photo pf the wife of Zelenski in uniform fabricated by the Ukrainian propaganda service .
Those who publish these photos must prove that they are genuine ,especially when the source of the photos is a propaganda service .
It is obvious that you don't know,or refuse to know what the mission is of a propaganda service in wartime .
Would you have believed the veracity of the photos made by the Propaganda Kompanie and published by Signal ?

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 06:46

Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 04:56
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 06:19
Please : read what I said : I did NOT say that Oryx fabricated photos, but that the Ukrainians fabricated photos .
1) Yes you literally asked "Do these tanks exist"
2) You CONSTANTLY claim Oryx = Ukraine

Care to make up your mind ?
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 06:19
And two more points
1 Did Ukraine give Oryx ALL photos it had made ? Of course not .
See, now you claim Oryx is different from Ukraine.

So you think "ukraine" didnt give all the photos (of what ? RU losses ?) to Oryx.

Prove it.
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 06:19
And why did Ukraine select the photos it had in its possession ? The Ukrainian propaganda services had many more photos than those it gave to Oryx .Which were the criteria used to give photo A ,but not photo B ? The answer is obvious .
You are again assuming that Oryx only takes photos from Ukraine sources, which is not true. They collect them from all sources, including RU.

Mad Dog
Are you now saying that the Russians took photos of their equipment losses and gave these photos to Oryx ? :roll:

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 07:06

ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:36
Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 04:58
Cult Icon wrote:
22 Sep 2022 13:05

A consideration is whether or not they received American help, like employing professional social media marketing specialists- who typically have skills in graphic design and know how to work social media towards their end goals. There are numerous Ukrainian propaganda accounts and personalities on social media now that are viral. They are effectively opinion leaders that control the thinking of millions. Oryx from what I've seen is not that aggressive compared to the others, they may be just 'useful idiots' that received a mixture of thousands of real and fraudulent photographs.
There are almost 1200 tank pictures under the RU loss section, which is plenty for you to examine. Care to tell us which are frauds ?

Mad Dog
Care to prove us which are genuine ?
Photos with as source a propaganda service must be considered as fraud,til they are proved to be real .
The photo of the dancing Hitler at the news of the French asking for an armistice ( the Hitler jig ) was also fabricated by the British propaganda service ,as was the photo pf the wife of Zelenski in uniform fabricated by the Ukrainian propaganda service .
Those who publish these photos must prove that they are genuine ,especially when the source of the photos is a propaganda service .
It is obvious that you don't know,or refuse to know what the mission is of a propaganda service in wartime .
Would you have believed the veracity of the photos made by the Propaganda Kompanie and published by Signal ?
You always find pretexts to reject any source of whatever nature that contradict your unsupported personal opinions. Nobody will ever convince you of anything.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 07:10

ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:24
Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 05:00
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 13:28

Even if the photos are real,which can't be proved, they do not prove that the Russians are on the run .
Is your issue that you dont believe that the UKR attack near Izyum was a total success ?

The RU fled, and in doing so, they a large amount of destroyed and captured equipment. Do you deny this ?

Mad Dog
You ask wrong questions
1 That the UKR attack was a ''total '' (always hyperboles ) success is not the question .
2 The question is if photos of lost equipment prove a retreat .And the answer is :NO
3 ''fled '' is also a hyperbole
4 The fact that Oryx tries to prove a Russian retreat by publishing photos of lost equipment, photos of which there is no proof that they are genuine and of which we can doubt very much that they are genuine,is very suspect : it indicates a cooperation of Oryx with the Ukrainian propaganda services .
You are seriously backtracking here. So, according to you the Russians lost a lot of terrain but no equipment. Not credible. Anyway, there are many videos of it. Journalists actually went there.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 07:13

Cult Icon wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:32
The Russian system is that they use reservists/conscripts fill out the 3-battalion Brigades, resulting in a formation that is similar in manpower as an American or a Ukrainian brigade.

The Russian professional/contract force has an especially high proportion of officers to ncos/privates, IIRC it's around 20%.

What they have deployed in Ukraine so far is the "BTG", the infantry-empty elements of the Brigades. In the case of mobilization, the reservists/conscripts fill up the previously empty units.

As pointed out many times, the Russians have withdrawn most of their prime units from the Ukraine, as they were expended in Feb-July. So it is likely that these units would receive the reservists and volunteers.

There is also the possibility that they will rotate the other 1/3rd of the professional army that is stationed in the borders, far East to the Ukraine, and minimize reservist exposure to the Ukraine by using a high portion of them for non-combat roles.
Wishful thinking. These reservists have to be retrained and integrated into units that have already suffered heavy losses, including in cadre. And obviously they will not be very happy to be pulled away from their normal life to get killed for Putins imperialism. There will be a lot dodging the call-up.

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:17

Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 05:08
Cult Icon wrote:
22 Sep 2022 16:38
Currently it is 700-600,000 Ukrainians vs circa 150,000 Russians/Separatists. Russian/Proxy troop strength peaked at around 200,000 in this war.
Very doubtful there are 700K UKR on the front, as opposed to some of that and some registered for the military. I doubt UKR could equip 700K.

Cult Icon wrote:
22 Sep 2022 16:38
With most of Russia's prime units refitting in the interior now, it is likely that the rebuilding process will start producing fully manned 3- battalion brigades, in accordance to pre-war doctrine. This is unprecedented and it solves the fundamental problem from the start- The Russians had the fire support but lacked the infantry to seize the ground. Once combined arms and tank armies deploy in the Ukraine with full infantry components, they will be able to exploit the effect of fires and conduct more maneuver warfare.
Except the BTG will be filled with cattle, being shoved to the front with virtually no training. It will be the Leningrad Peoples Militia Army all over again, except in this case, the RU arent defending RU.

For RU:
HOW are you going to TRAIN 300,000 soldiers
HOW are you going to EQUIP 300,000 soldiers
HOW are you going to SUPPLY 300,000 soldiers
HOW are you going to COMMAND 300,000 soldier (good luck finding trained command elements for all the new formations...)

Does Putin have a copy of the Necronomicon where he is planning to blood sacrifice all the 300,000 to summon the Elder god Chthulhu ?

Mad Dog
Very doubtful that there are 150000 Russians on the front .

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:21

Aida1 wrote:
23 Sep 2022 07:13
[
Wishful thinking. These reservists have to be retrained and integrated into units that have already suffered heavy losses, including in cadre. And obviously they will not be very happy to be pulled away from their normal life to get killed for Putins imperialism. There will be a lot dodging the call-up.
[/quote]

There are no proofs that these reservists will be send to the front and if they will be send,that they will be killed .
Besides : what is wrong with imperialism ?
All great powers are imperialists .

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:25

Aida1 wrote:
23 Sep 2022 07:10
ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:24
Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 05:00
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 13:28

Even if the photos are real,which can't be proved, they do not prove that the Russians are on the run .
Is your issue that you dont believe that the UKR attack near Izyum was a total success ?

The RU fled, and in doing so, they a large amount of destroyed and captured equipment. Do you deny this ?

Mad Dog
You ask wrong questions
1 That the UKR attack was a ''total '' (always hyperboles ) success is not the question .
2 The question is if photos of lost equipment prove a retreat .And the answer is :NO
3 ''fled '' is also a hyperbole
4 The fact that Oryx tries to prove a Russian retreat by publishing photos of lost equipment, photos of which there is no proof that they are genuine and of which we can doubt very much that they are genuine,is very suspect : it indicates a cooperation of Oryx with the Ukrainian propaganda services .
You are seriously backtracking here. So, according to you the Russians lost a lot of terrain but no equipment. Not credible. Anyway, there are many videos of it. Journalists actually went there.
As usual falsifying what I said : photos of lost equipment do not prove a retreat ,or even an advance .
Photos of lost equipment are only wast and pastime for children .
And those who use such photos to prove something can be rightly assumed to be members of propaganda services .

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:29

Hikari wrote:
23 Sep 2022 02:27
Продолжаются ожесточенные бои под Лиманом. ВСУ продолжают наступать в посёлке Дробышево и обходят его с севера, выходя в тыл защитникам указанного н.п.- информация от военкора Анны Долгаревой, которая не замечена ни в паникерстве, ни в дезинформации).
-igov

Fierce fighting continues near Liman. The Ukrainian Armed Forces continue to advance in the village of Drobyshevo and bypass it from the north, coming into the rear of the defenders of this settlement - information from military correspondent Anna Dolgareva, who is not known for either alarmism or disinformation).
And, where does Dolgareva get her information ?

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:35

Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 04:51
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 06:08
To say that it is very easy to fabricate photos using a computer is not the same as saying that the photos were created by photoshop .
You LITERALLY asked if "do these tanks exist" ?

So maybe this is a translation thing. Lets clear the air to make sure we are on the same page.

You agree that the tanks in the pictures actually exist and are not virtual creations ?

YES [ ]
NO [ ]

The old tactic of using loaded questions :roll:
I have nothing to agree .
1 There is no proof that the tanks in the pictures exist
2 Given what we know of those who made and spread the pictures ,we may reasonably assume that the big majority of the tanks are virtual creations .



Mad Dog

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by ljadw » 23 Sep 2022 09:41

Aida1 wrote:
22 Sep 2022 14:40
Given your huge prorussian bias and your copying of Russian propaganda, there are good reasons to takes this with a large grain of salt. I think anything that comes from the Ukraine and free western media is far more credible that whatever comes from your dear autocratic Russia which has a very loose relation with the truth. .
[/quote]
Free western media ??? :lol: You are telling fairy tales .
Corona has showed us how much the western media are free .

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 10:05

ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 09:25
Aida1 wrote:
23 Sep 2022 07:10
ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:24
Tom Peters wrote:
23 Sep 2022 05:00
ljadw wrote:
22 Sep 2022 13:28

Even if the photos are real,which can't be proved, they do not prove that the Russians are on the run .
Is your issue that you dont believe that the UKR attack near Izyum was a total success ?

The RU fled, and in doing so, they a large amount of destroyed and captured equipment. Do you deny this ?

Mad Dog
You ask wrong questions
1 That the UKR attack was a ''total '' (always hyperboles ) success is not the question .
2 The question is if photos of lost equipment prove a retreat .And the answer is :NO
3 ''fled '' is also a hyperbole
4 The fact that Oryx tries to prove a Russian retreat by publishing photos of lost equipment, photos of which there is no proof that they are genuine and of which we can doubt very much that they are genuine,is very suspect : it indicates a cooperation of Oryx with the Ukrainian propaganda services .
You are seriously backtracking here. So, according to you the Russians lost a lot of terrain but no equipment. Not credible. Anyway, there are many videos of it. Journalists actually went there.
As usual falsifying what I said : photos of lost equipment do not prove a retreat ,or even an advance .
Photos of lost equipment are only wast and pastime for children .
And those who use such photos to prove something can be rightly assumed to be members of propaganda services .
The truth is you do not want to believe anything whatever proof is presented to you. You will always find a pretext to disbelieve anything you do not like to hear.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 10:07

ljadw wrote:
23 Sep 2022 09:21
Aida1 wrote:
23 Sep 2022 07:13
[
Wishful thinking. These reservists have to be retrained and integrated into units that have already suffered heavy losses, including in cadre. And obviously they will not be very happy to be pulled away from their normal life to get killed for Putins imperialism. There will be a lot dodging the call-up.
There are no proofs that these reservists will be send to the front and if they will be send,that they will be killed .
Besides : what is wrong with imperialism ?
All great powers are imperialists .
[/quote]

As usual answering with denial of everything. Obviously these reservists were called to play with cards, at least according to your contrarian view that is based on absolutely nothing.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Aida1 » 23 Sep 2022 10:11

Russians are fleeing their country to evade Putins call-up. :D
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=8b97f496 ... IxMg&ntb=1

Peter89
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Post by Peter89 » 23 Sep 2022 10:15

Aida1 wrote:
23 Sep 2022 07:13
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Sep 2022 06:32
The Russian system is that they use reservists/conscripts fill out the 3-battalion Brigades, resulting in a formation that is similar in manpower as an American or a Ukrainian brigade.

The Russian professional/contract force has an especially high proportion of officers to ncos/privates, IIRC it's around 20%.

What they have deployed in Ukraine so far is the "BTG", the infantry-empty elements of the Brigades. In the case of mobilization, the reservists/conscripts fill up the previously empty units.

As pointed out many times, the Russians have withdrawn most of their prime units from the Ukraine, as they were expended in Feb-July. So it is likely that these units would receive the reservists and volunteers.

There is also the possibility that they will rotate the other 1/3rd of the professional army that is stationed in the borders, far East to the Ukraine, and minimize reservist exposure to the Ukraine by using a high portion of them for non-combat roles.
Wishful thinking. These reservists have to be retrained and integrated into units that have already suffered heavy losses, including in cadre. And obviously they will not be very happy to be pulled away from their normal life to get killed for Putins imperialism. There will be a lot dodging the call-up.
In my opinion, the majority of the reservists will go to the Far East, Caucasus and Central Asia, and the already trained and equipped units will go to Ukraine. There is no point to send reservists (many of whom don't want to go to war at all) to Ukraine where they can rout or surrender, causing heavy casualties in equipment and international prestige. Or die, which can cause serious problems in an already tense domestic politics. Most likely they will go to places where their training and morale correspond their tasks.
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

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