news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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Hikari
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#841

Post by Hikari » 05 Oct 2022, 05:52

Tom Peters wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 04:13
Aida1 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 21:52
Always nice from the russsia army to donate its tanks.
https://youtu.be/Uxrx4L9nWEQ
RU is very generous, having donated about 400 of them to UKR.

lets give a big round of thanks to Ukraines biggest arms donor, Russia !

[clapping]

Mad Dog
If the Russian army is half as strong as the "mighty Russian cultists", why are they being beaten so badly by Ukraine?

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Hikari
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#842

Post by Hikari » 05 Oct 2022, 05:55

Aida1 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 21:10
Cult Icon wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 20:46
mezsat2 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:24
Russia is about to lose around 25 thousand troops and vast quantities of equipment in Kherson Oblast unless they can improvise a wholesale retreat in the next few days. Even so, they'd have to abandon all the heavy artillery, tanks, etc. just to save their men.
Their more vulnerable position is north of the Dniprio. At most they would withdraw across the river. But beyond that Ukraine has no chance.
You are getting desperate now. Reduced to hiding behind a big river. :lol: :lol:
Now the betting is open:When will Putin commit suicide and in what way - by taking poison, by using a gun or something else? :thumbsup:


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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#843

Post by ljadw » 05 Oct 2022, 06:06

Tom Peters wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 04:02
ljadw wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:22
And the Eurasian Times cited also what Amael Kotlarski, from Janes,said in Stars and Stripes :''A Javelin in itself is not going to be able to allow the Ukrainians to defeat the entire Russian army .
The Javelin is not a silver bullet. There is a prevailing narrative in the public mood to sort of lionizing certain weapons systems as having a defining impact on certain conflicts (but ) the reality is more complex.
There are no reliable data on how many Javelins Ukraine used in battle and to what effect .''
Thus : why should I believe the claim from the Ukrainians ( infamous for their falsifications ) that with only 300 Javelins,they destroyed 280 Russian tanks in one week ?
You miss the point - no one said that 300 Javelins destroyed 800 tanks. The Javelins were only part of the weapons used.

Good news though ! About 1250 RU tanks have been lost so far, and many of those were by Javelin. The Javelin was a tremendous morale boost for the UKR.

Mad Dog
The Ukrainians claimed that the wife of Zelensky was wearing an uniform : the photo was falsified .
The Ukrainians claimed that they destroyed 280 tanks with 300 Javelins :there is no proof for this and given their past,we may assume that they lied again .
The Ukrainians claimed that the Russians lost 1250 tanks ,if true,it is irrelevant and without importance,but there is no proof for this and given their past, we may assume that they lied again .
Conclusion : don't believe the Ukrainian propaganda .
And I see that you also do not believe what the Ukrainians are saying : they said that they destroyed 280 tanks with 300 Javelins and you said that many tanks were destroyed by Javelins . What is many ? 10 is also many .
There is also no proof for your claim that the Javelin was a tremendous morale boost for the UKR.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#844

Post by ljadw » 05 Oct 2022, 06:28

Peter89 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:55
Gooner1 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:26
Anyway, Russia can continue this low-intensity war on Ukrainian soil for at least a year or two years perhaps. The Ukrainians will not advance across the border, and it means that Russia can renew her attacks over and over again. This is a strategic imbalance in favor of Russia that can not be broken by Western help: and Ukrainians still flee the country, about 10.000 every day. And what happens if Russia can not win and Ukraine can not win either? Ukraine can not win by retaking her territories from Russia; there would be no guarantees to prevent another and another Russian attack.
Ukraine will have to do what Israel does. Ukrainian society will become a highly militarised one with a very large percentage of GDP devoted to defence.
They'll also need weapons superior to that of their opponent to go with their superior doctrine.

Also I think more Ukrainians are now returning to Ukraine from Europe than there are leaving?
Well if you are right, then look at what Israel does to the Arabs; I would never, ever support such a state, no matter how do their opponents behave.

Ukraine can not be "highly militarized" the way Israel is: Ukraine has a very weak economy that produces very little added value, an ageing society and a ruined country. Plus no international connections like Israel.

The moment Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal (about 20% of what the USSR had at the time), she became vulnerable. The Hungarian PM at the time (József Antall), who was a historian, warned the participants, Brent Scowcroft and Bush prior to the Budapest Memorandum, that they should either finish off Russia or they play with fire, because the Russian Bear will be awaken from its hibernation. Of course, as usual, the Americans knew better, and called off the agreement that would enable Hungary to supply the American troops in Europe with foodstuffs.

From a historian's perspective, Russia was set on a path at the breakup of the USSR that culminates in the present situation.
For once,old Bush was right .How could they finish off Russia ?There always will be a Russia .
And, Russia was set on a path at the breakup of the USSR that culminates in the present situation means nothing else that Russia also had a manifest destiny .And Russia is much more moderate than the US who are intervening overall in the world .

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#845

Post by Aida1 » 05 Oct 2022, 07:52

ljadw wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 06:06
Tom Peters wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 04:02
ljadw wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:22
And the Eurasian Times cited also what Amael Kotlarski, from Janes,said in Stars and Stripes :''A Javelin in itself is not going to be able to allow the Ukrainians to defeat the entire Russian army .
The Javelin is not a silver bullet. There is a prevailing narrative in the public mood to sort of lionizing certain weapons systems as having a defining impact on certain conflicts (but ) the reality is more complex.
There are no reliable data on how many Javelins Ukraine used in battle and to what effect .''
Thus : why should I believe the claim from the Ukrainians ( infamous for their falsifications ) that with only 300 Javelins,they destroyed 280 Russian tanks in one week ?
You miss the point - no one said that 300 Javelins destroyed 800 tanks. The Javelins were only part of the weapons used.

Good news though ! About 1250 RU tanks have been lost so far, and many of those were by Javelin. The Javelin was a tremendous morale boost for the UKR.

Mad Dog
The Ukrainians claimed that the wife of Zelensky was wearing an uniform : the photo was falsified .
The Ukrainians claimed that they destroyed 280 tanks with 300 Javelins :there is no proof for this and given their past,we may assume that they lied again .
The Ukrainians claimed that the Russians lost 1250 tanks ,if true,it is irrelevant and without importance,but there is no proof for this and given their past, we may assume that they lied again .
Conclusion : don't believe the Ukrainian propaganda .
And I see that you also do not believe what the Ukrainians are saying : they said that they destroyed 280 tanks with 300 Javelins and you said that many tanks were destroyed by Javelins . What is many ? 10 is also many .
There is also no proof for your claim that the Javelin was a tremendous morale boost for the UKR.
You should read some more instead of playing the contrarian. You always deny everything. If we have to believe you, the russians were defeated without losing any armor at all. :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Aida1 on 05 Oct 2022, 08:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#846

Post by Aida1 » 05 Oct 2022, 07:53

ljadw wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 06:28
Peter89 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:55
Gooner1 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:26
Anyway, Russia can continue this low-intensity war on Ukrainian soil for at least a year or two years perhaps. The Ukrainians will not advance across the border, and it means that Russia can renew her attacks over and over again. This is a strategic imbalance in favor of Russia that can not be broken by Western help: and Ukrainians still flee the country, about 10.000 every day. And what happens if Russia can not win and Ukraine can not win either? Ukraine can not win by retaking her territories from Russia; there would be no guarantees to prevent another and another Russian attack.
Ukraine will have to do what Israel does. Ukrainian society will become a highly militarised one with a very large percentage of GDP devoted to defence.
They'll also need weapons superior to that of their opponent to go with their superior doctrine.

Also I think more Ukrainians are now returning to Ukraine from Europe than there are leaving?
Well if you are right, then look at what Israel does to the Arabs; I would never, ever support such a state, no matter how do their opponents behave.

Ukraine can not be "highly militarized" the way Israel is: Ukraine has a very weak economy that produces very little added value, an ageing society and a ruined country. Plus no international connections like Israel.

The moment Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal (about 20% of what the USSR had at the time), she became vulnerable. The Hungarian PM at the time (József Antall), who was a historian, warned the participants, Brent Scowcroft and Bush prior to the Budapest Memorandum, that they should either finish off Russia or they play with fire, because the Russian Bear will be awaken from its hibernation. Of course, as usual, the Americans knew better, and called off the agreement that would enable Hungary to supply the American troops in Europe with foodstuffs.

From a historian's perspective, Russia was set on a path at the breakup of the USSR that culminates in the present situation.
For once,old Bush was right .How could they finish off Russia ?There always will be a Russia .
And, Russia was set on a path at the breakup of the USSR that culminates in the present situation means nothing else that Russia also had a manifest destiny .And Russia is much more moderate than the US who are intervening overall in the world .
Totally irrelevant. Russia has attacked the Ukraine.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#847

Post by Cult Icon » 05 Oct 2022, 12:58

South of the Dniprio is the Russian army's most concentrated troop presence in Ukraine.

There are way too many internet trolls on this thread.

mezsat2
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#848

Post by mezsat2 » 05 Oct 2022, 13:02

ljadw wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 12:22
And the Eurasian Times cited also what Amael Kotlarski, from Janes,said in Stars and Stripes :''A Javelin in itself is not going to be able to allow the Ukrainians to defeat the entire Russian army .
The Javelin is not a silver bullet. There is a prevailing narrative in the public mood to sort of lionizing certain weapons systems as having a defining impact on certain conflicts (but ) the reality is more complex.
There are no reliable data on how many Javelins Ukraine used in battle and to what effect .''
Thus : why should I believe the claim from the Ukrainians ( infamous for their falsifications ) that with only 300 Javelins,they destroyed 280 Russian tanks in one week ?
Ukraine possesses many thousands of anti-tank weapons besides Javelins. NLAWs, Panzerfaust 3, TOW. I'd guess Javelins are responsible for, at most,
40% of the overall tank kills.

The bottom line is Putin has invested untold billions into weapons, but very little on the people needed to operate them. Poor/inadequate training, poor communication systems, overall poor organization of the troops. Many times when Russian tanks run out of fuel, the crews just get out and run away- providing instantly useable armor to the Ukrainians.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... ess_rifles
Last edited by mezsat2 on 05 Oct 2022, 13:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#849

Post by Cult Icon » 05 Oct 2022, 13:03

Not correct, Ukrainian artillery and the Russians were responsible for most.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#850

Post by Aida1 » 05 Oct 2022, 13:29

Cult Icon wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 12:58
South of the Dniprio is the Russian army's most concentrated troop presence in Ukraine.

There are way too many internet trolls on this thread.
Anytime, the russians lose something, it becomes unimportant to you. :lol: I call that spin. You call trolls all the many here that disagree with your pro russian bias. Illustrates your tunnelvision that you cannot even understand that anybody could honestly not share your bias. Some people maybe could suspect you of being one of the many russian trolls on the internet.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#851

Post by Aida1 » 05 Oct 2022, 13:38

Cult Icon wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 13:03
Not correct, Ukrainian artillery and the Russians were responsible for most.
You do not know that but implicitly you admit that the russians made massive errors.

mezsat2
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#852

Post by mezsat2 » 05 Oct 2022, 13:52

Cult Icon wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 13:03
Not correct, Ukrainian artillery and the Russians were responsible for most.
It's difficult to calculate with the chaos there, but Ukraine claims they have
captured more intact Russian tanks than they have lost in combat since February.

Propaganda? Well, the proof's in the pudding. Nearly all the tanks Ukraine
is advancing with were made in Russia. So, they're being defeated with their
own armor and still mostly Russian artillery.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#853

Post by Gooner1 » 05 Oct 2022, 14:07

Peter89 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 17:06
Let's not forget that Russia is still fighting in Ukraine.

How scared the Russian General Staff and the civilian leadership could be when "Lyman is lost", I can not fathom. I think they are more afraid of their own people. Eons ago I wrote about my mother's experiences in the SU from 1980, when the people of Leningrad lived a way more poor life than people in Budapest or Bratislava, yet they had a sense of superiority over the subjugated nations. Every country with imperialist traditions, UK and France included, has an innate trust in the power of their military, the power of the arms. And as long as that sense of power is alive, the population will support the war, or at least passively assissting to it. If things look grim, then the government can apply to the sense of heroism, and frankly: Russia can not lose this war - or any war - if they lose, they lose it with the rest of humankind. Russia can lose only against Russia and the West can lose only against the West.
What's wrong with losing? Everyone has lost at war sometime or other including the Worlds most Powerful Nation ... as recently as last year.

And Russia has lost many wars including in 1854-56, 1904-5 and 1914-1918.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#854

Post by Gooner1 » 05 Oct 2022, 14:19

Peter89 wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 18:01
But now, that fragile logic falls apart, because both Russia and Ukraine is shelling, rocketing and destroying Ukraine. The "staggering" €46 Billion per year you quote is exactly 1/7 of the damage done in Ukraine by the EU's (and by Ukraine's government and by the World Bank) own professional assessment ( https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... ip_22_5428 ).
Or, in other words, the EU Cohesion Fund could pay for all the damage caused by the war within 7 years.
So how exactly are the Europeans going to pay for that? And why should they?
By not transferring so much money from the EU's wealthier nations to the EU's poorer nations (mainly Eastern Europe) but transferring it to Ukraine instead. A booming economy in a Ukraine tied to the EU would be good for the economies of the EU too. That's how it works.
Yes, but not in the sense as it is interpreted in the West. The same is true for the peace dictats after and during (!) WW1. Those were not "bad" because they were not fair or nice; peace treaties have nothing to do with that. The only thing that matters is whether peace treaties work. The Brest-Litovsk treaty could not work, the Versailles, Saint-Germain, Neuilly, Trianon and Sèvres treaties did not work either. Why? Because the winner overreached. This is a typical anglo-saxon approach that dominated the international diplomacy in the past 100 years. But in fact, it rarely - if ever - produced a lasting peace; but again and again, pushed the underdog in a corner where it felt that it is more sensible to die fighting than to die in peace.

Some people should begin to think about that.
Did the Soviet Union sign a peace treaty with the West that caused it to break up?

No, the parallels I was thinking of were the break-up of the Soviet Union left large numbers of Russians living outside the borders of Russia itself and that some future revanchist Russian leader would therefore seek to expand Russia's borders to encompass the volk outside.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#855

Post by Gooner1 » 05 Oct 2022, 14:26

Cult Icon wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 13:03
Not correct, Ukrainian artillery and the Russians were responsible for most.
Ukrainian ATGMs were pretty critical in pinning Russian armour so that Ukrainian artillery could kill effectively.

Colonel Markus Reisner on the Österreichs Bundesheer youtube channel had a good video demonstrating this.

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