news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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Gooner1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2566

Post by Gooner1 » 08 Feb 2023, 16:37

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:48
Is the US help to Ukraine serving the interests of the US ?
US aid to Ukraine = 5% of defense spending = massively degraded Russian conventional military :lol:

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2567

Post by Aida1 » 08 Feb 2023, 18:37

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:34
That Javelins ( how many ? ) arrived in 2015 in Ukraine is not a proof for the claim that the Russians failed in March/April 2022 to defeat Ukraine because of these Javelins .
How many Russian tanks were destroyed by these Javelins and was the destruction of an unknown number of tanks the reason why the Ukrainian offensive succeeded ?
There is no reason to believe the propaganda from Lockheed Martin .
The Ukrainian counter offensive was nor the reason for the Russian failure, but the result of it and thus the counter offensive would also have happened without HIMARS,GMLRS and Western artillery .
The Russian claim of controlling 55 % or even 100 % of the Donetsk oblast was the recognition that they had failed : the aim of the invasion was NOT to control the Donetsk oblast but the elimination of Ukraine as an independent and hostile state and the occupation of the Donetsk oblast would not do this ,
As the Russians had not the means to and defeat the Ukrainian army and occupy and pacify Ukraine, the only possibility was to eliminate the Ukrainian leadership,hoping that this would result in the collaps of the Ukrainian state and its transformation in something as Belarus .
This failed,and not because of HIMARS,etc, but because of the willingness of the Ukrainians to fight ,they fought also in 2014 without HIMARS and JAVELINS..
Ukraine could afford a long war, Russia could not afford a long war . Russia fought not against 600000 Ukrainian military, but against 40 million Ukrainians who did not need Javelins, HIMARS ,etc. The comparison with Barbarossa is significant :the Soviets won ,not because of the KV or T 34 tanks, not because of Lend-Lease ,but because the population was willing to fight and to suffer . And, one can ask the same question about the Stingers, etc, given to the Taliban when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan .
The bla bla about the gamechangers from Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics is only a copycat of the myth of the Lend Lease game changer .
On 25 March 2022 the first phase of the special military operation was a failure .
On that day the war had to be over .
The war was not over .
You only showcase your prejudice against western weapons and your conspirationism. You seem to think the Ukranians can fight without weapons. :lol: :lol:
The Ukranians asked western weapons because they needed them.


ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2568

Post by ljadw » 08 Feb 2023, 18:50

Gooner1 wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:37
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:48
Is the US help to Ukraine serving the interests of the US ?
US aid to Ukraine = 5% of defense spending = massively degraded Russian conventional military :lol:
No US aid to Ukraine is also massively degrading conventional Russian military .

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dgfred
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2569

Post by dgfred » 08 Feb 2023, 19:12

Well something sure blew up many of their tanks.

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Cult Icon
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2570

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Feb 2023, 19:26

dgfred wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 19:12
Well something sure blew up many of their tanks.
Ukrainian artillery was the no. 1 factor, not ATGM. The ATGM thing is a US/UK propaganda myth. Also the general mobilization (vast infantry superiority) to seal off the frontline.

Gooner1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2571

Post by Gooner1 » 08 Feb 2023, 20:09

Cult Icon wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 19:26

Ukrainian artillery was the no. 1 factor, not ATGM. The ATGM thing is a US/UK propaganda myth. Also the general mobilization (vast infantry superiority) to seal off the frontline.
ATGMs were and are a key factor in pinning Russian armour enabling artillery to kill them. There are several good videos on youtub showing this.
Infantry without good AT weapons are victims.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2572

Post by Aida1 » 08 Feb 2023, 20:21

Cult Icon wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 19:26
dgfred wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 19:12
Well something sure blew up many of their tanks.
Ukrainian artillery was the no. 1 factor, not ATGM. The ATGM thing is a US/UK propaganda myth. Also the general mobilization (vast infantry superiority) to seal off the frontline.
Your prorussian bias at work again. Obviously western weapons can never be a factor in your prejudiced view. :lol: :lol:

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Cult Icon
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2573

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Feb 2023, 20:45


Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2574

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 03:20

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03

snip
First off, I would ask all posters to snip reply text that has no relevance to the post.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03
I admit nothing .
I comment the declaration of the Canadian Minister of Defense who CLAIMED that the first Leos had arrived in Poland ,thus not in Ukraine, without being able to say what was the number of tanks that had arrived in Poland : 2 tanks is also ''the first '' .
You were claiming earlier that no one should believe the promises of western governments when it came to supplying UKR with gear. We show that gear is on its way, and now you change your tune.

its arriving.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03
She said also that the training of the Ukrainian crews would start soon ,without saying when : is soon : March ?,May ? August ?
And how many Ukrainians will be trained ?
Do you have a need to know ?

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03
The minister also wisely avoided to say something about the conditions of these few tanks,she claimed having sent ,this raises justified suspicion that these tanks are not operational .
Show us some evidence for your assertion.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03
We may assume that in the near future none of these tanks will go to Ukraine to participate to the war and that this ''help '' will not help Ukraine :it is only propaganda .
You literally have evidence that your claims are wrong, yet you cling to them. Madness.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:03
Or political theater, as you admit it yourself . :lol:
It is political theatre - which isnt preventing the delivery of tanks. Despite your claims.

Once again, I ask you - what is your problem with tank deliveries to UKR:

[ ] not enough
[ ] too much
[ ] not fast enough

Care to answer ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2575

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 03:21

waldopepper wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 07:07
You'll never convince ljadw of anything.

I suspect he's a Russian troll.

Best to ignore him rather than wasting time trying replies to his assertions.
I cannot doubt you, yet it entertains me. This is quite possibly an unhealthy relationship. : )

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Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2576

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 03:28

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:24
The Dutch minister of defense lied (as one can expect ) that the Netherlands would deliver together with Denmark and Germany 100 Leo 1A5s (The Dutch TV called them '' old timer tanks '' ) from 1987 , thus 36 years old . These tanks are still in the depots of the German defense industry .
Answer the following question:

Did the Dutch and Germans promise to deliver them by today, February 8 ?

[ ] YES
[ ] NO

Your answer, in and of itself, will answer your contention of lying.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 09:24
But the German defense industry ( Rheinmetall ) said that it could repair and deliver only 20-25 of these tanks in 2023. the rest was for 2024 .
Were you not just claiming that the EU politicans were lying and could not be trusted ?

if so, how do you know they were not lying about being delayed until 2024 to deliver most of the L1 ?

Out clevered yourself, didnt you ?

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Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2577

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 03:39

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:37

Gear was promised ,gear was sent : that is something totally meaningless .
Your entire contention to this point is that gear is not being sent.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:37
Gear was promised, an unknown amount of gear was sent , unknown but very small,thus useless and gear is again promised :Abrams .While it was very possible to send the tanks in February , as US armed forces have thousands of them , only 31 will be sent , but this will take a year : that means that the promise is a lie .
Did the US promise to send thousands of tanks ?

[ ] YES
[ ] NO

The physical reality is "no".

It is not a lie.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:37
The Ukrainians want hundreds of tanks now, while this can be done , the answer is : NO .We will sent 31 tanks but it will take a year .
Translation : we will not send tanks .
That is literally not the truth. Are you a ChatGPT bot ?
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:37
About the HIMARS : here also it was an empty promise .
They said they would send 20. They sent 20.

Promise kept.
ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:37
US has hundreds of HIMARS . They promised Ukraine to send them HIMARS .
What was the result ?
As far as we can tell, an ass-beating on the RU logistical system which resulted in slower RU offensives, and a drastic decrease in RU artillery shoots.

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Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2578

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 03:57

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:48
And I see ( not that I did not expect it ) that no one here dares to answer the 3 following questions
A Is the Russian invasion of Ukraine threatening the key interests of the US ?
B Is the US help to Ukraine helping that country ?
C Is the US help to Ukraine serving the interests of the US ?
Attenuating circumstance is that the Atlantic Council (the mouthpiece of those who want to impose US values by force on the rest of the world ) also is unable to answer these questions .
A: Yes, it puts the breaks on imperialist expansion of a global competitor, and in doing so will prevent RU from doing so again in the near future.
B: Yes, clearly. UKR says so.
C: Yes, see A.

See how easy that is, to answer questions. You should try it.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2579

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 04:05

ljadw wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:34
That Javelins ( how many ? ) arrived in 2015 in Ukraine is not a proof for the claim that the Russians failed in March/April 2022 to defeat Ukraine because of these Javelins .
Oh no you dont !

You claimed, in post 2559:

"The decisive phase of the war was before the Javelins and HIMARS arrived "

The observable physical reality is that the javelins arrived before the war even began.

Stop moving your goal posts.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2580

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Feb 2023, 04:08

Cult Icon wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:14
the historian Philp O'Brien claims that Ukraine now has 80 brigades, up from 27 on Feb 24th. The remnants of the 300,000 professional-contract ground forces & national guard cadre are spread very thin, like Germany in 1945.
You earlier claimed they had 700,000 men in the field.

Change your tune like ljadw ?
Cult Icon wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:14
If Ukraine concentrates their best personnel in a few 'attack units' they could launch a counteroffensive in some area. But the majority of their units are only capable of static defense.
You mean like when they cleaned out the Kharkov area of the RU forces ? Lyman ring a bell ?
Cult Icon wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 16:14
The real mystery is how Russia intends on 'demilitarizing' this huge people's army without a long war of attrition or use of tactical nuclear weapons.
You and me both. This war has no winners, only losers.

Mad Dog

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