That's the problem, Heniu.henryk wrote: I was the Systems Manager for the Cl-289 Surveillance Drone System purchased by the West Germans and French to provide surveillance in case of a Warsaw Pact attack. It would permit identifying and locating targets for attack. Should the fathers of sons killed in that attack curse me for indirectly causing the deaths of their sons. Should they curse the developers of the missiles that directly killed their sons. Should they curse Kuklinski for providing the information that facilitated that attack.
No, of course not!. They should curse the communist lackeys in their government that acquiesced in supporting their Overlords of the Evil Empire on the aggressive invasion.
You were not living in Poland at that time and it would not have been your son, who could have been bombed by NATO aviation. Therefore you will never understand me.
But they could have died and your hero made a lot of efforts (although it could not have been his intention) to increase this number. That's enough.henryk wrote:But Poles did not die in an invasion of Denmark.
The Soviets were not kind of guys, who used to give up like this. The effect could have been just replacing highest rank Polish officers for Soviet ones as it happened after WWII.Radziu S. wrote:In case of war, his contribution could have been decisive: By supplying the U.S. with details about the wartime command bunker he made it possible to stop the Soviets by liquidating the Soviet leadership instead of liquidating Poland.
It's not even worth comment. Radziu must live on other planet as he writes such things.Radziu S. wrote:In the fall of 1980, for example, Brezhnev was planning to crush Solidarity with a full-scale invasion of Poland. Kuklinski's information on the plans helped President Carter make pointed, well-timed warnings to the Soviets, which arguably prevented the invasion and what would have been a major East––West confrontation.
We know about American "help" in Czechoslovakia in 1968 or Hungary in 1956. What help? Do you mean a moral one?
The Western Allies did not care about Poland during and after WWII and you expect they would have cared about us in 1980 having much better organised Soviet and East German forces with a "couple" of A-bombs as an opponent? As the casualties in Iraq (3000+++ killed in 4 years) are shocking for American society, what would you say for 3000 killed within a few hours of a full-scale conflict, even EXCLUDING A-weapon?
Could you enlighten me and explain where is logic in Radziu's way of thinking, because I cannot follow it?
Who cares about Wałęsa in Poland now? He's completely forgotten and considered an "idiot" (it's an opinion of most of Poles, not my personal one), who ridiculed himself during the presidental election in 2000 gathering 0.7% of votes. He is used to talking what he knows, but he rarely knows, what he's talking about.Walesa has relented and calls Kuklinski a hero.
...said a man, who according to official polls is considered the worst Polish president in history (yes, worse than Wałęsa). He has an approval rate of 20+% now, IIRC.(My translation of Kaczynski’s words: "According to the plans at that time, if world war broke out, if Soviet Russia invaded Europe, our Country, in the physical sense, would be no more. And that is the standard to judge Colonel Ryszard Kuklinski by. But we exist today. And we can say to the Colonel: sleep in peace, you served the Fatherland well." )
Sooooooooo very funny, but you could have made me even more laugh by choosing Kim Jong Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or sheik Usamah ibn Muhammad ibn Ladin al-Riyadi for K*'s supporters.
No money, so the yacht he owned must have been a gift from Jesus Christ & heaven. There haven't been any Polish commie generals in history who could afford to have a luxury yacht, not talking about a colonel.According to Kuklinski, he received no money for his espionage activities.
It's very logic and Danes, who "we" (->Soviets in fact) planned to attack would not have helped us in getting mild peace conditionsToKu wrote:In case of hipotetical west - east conflict we were sacheduled to be a part of bad guys. So theoretically our chances for getting good peace conditions were lower then after WW II.
I also doubt it. Any others believe?ToKu wrote: But the fact is: he gave information to our enemies.
Yes, enemies. I wonder if during hot conflict NATO solidiers would be ordered to aim at legs, cause guys who opposite them are Poles and they don't really want to be there. I doubt it.
You have missed the point a bit. It would be no problem for the Polish society with accepting suffering causalties, but there is a kind of necessary and unnecessary casualties. You probably mean we would not like to suffer casualties in a BS war, that would not have given any gains for Poland and where we would have been used just as a Soviet tool.ToKu wrote:He gave information that led to higher casualties among polish solidiers. Poland lost TOO MANY of its sons already during XX century.
There is no force in the world, that would have motivated me to attacking Denmark, that has never been in state of war with Poland. My initial willingness to fight would have been equal to zero, but I would have to fight just not to be killed and trying to survive. Taking part in such a BS war would not have given me any satisfaction or pride.
It's beyond my capabilities, either. I cannot judge his intentions, because I "was not" in his mind, just possible consequences.ToKu wrote:Sorry for being too sarcastic, but I simply can't understand how the hell he could be treated as hero.